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Bush TV135LU

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PYE625
(@pye625)
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Thanks Jamie, I'm pleased to own it now. It will be a very nice set.  ?

The VHF tuner is the same as fitted to the TV135, using PC900 and PCF806 valves. The UHF tuner of course uses the PC86/PC88 types. Legs were clearly fitted to this model. (In fact, it might be possible to find suitable legs again.) The front of the set has cleaned up quite nicely, but I'm loathed to wet the fabric around the volume control. The cabinet needs some work in due course.

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To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/05/2018 8:52 pm
PYE625
(@pye625)
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Posted by: Jamie

 It was given to me by a friend of mine who purely rescued it because someone threw it out. It sat in his shed for years, until I acquired it, It then sat in my workshop for ages...

A good thing fate stepped in, otherwise it could so easily have been thrown away and destroyed.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/05/2018 9:09 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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Those legs were pretty standard with angled metal plates to splay the legs at an angle to give the set some stability. You can see the impression in the bottom of the set, the plates point towards the outside.

Frank

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Posted : 07/05/2018 9:21 pm
PYE625
(@pye625)
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One thing I did notice to begin with when first powered, was that the VHF tuner was initially tuned to CH1 and CH9 for ITV. So it makes me wonder if it started off in the London area. Be interesting to discover where the UHF is tuned to.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/05/2018 9:22 pm
PYE625
(@pye625)
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Posted by: Nuvistor

Those legs were pretty standard with angled metal plates to splay the legs at an angle to give the set some stability. You can see the impression in the bottom of the set, the plates point towards the outside.

That's right Frank, so it will be good to see if any could be obtained later on.  ?

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/05/2018 9:25 pm
Marcus 3700
(@marcus-3700)
Trusted V-Ratter Deactivated Account

Hello Andrew,

Rather superb news regarding the lopt problems (now solved) I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this and the posts that Chris put up in the B&W section, solving this issue. Well done that man! I have a few sets with rather similar issues.

A cracking set and very well done in giving her/him a new lease of life!

I do rather feel that old tv sets, that have spent a working life giving us entertainment and seeing us staring at them, get some what upset when they develop a fault and are no longer fixed. After all, we did spend most of our time just looking at them and received all of our news and entertainment from them. I don't think when smart phones fail anyone will give a dam regarding their replacements. And even the latest smart phone will have no passing regard to the previous model.

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Posted : 08/05/2018 2:31 am
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PYE625
(@pye625)
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Hi Marcus, good to hear from you  ?

The work I've done with the LOPT's, to me anyway, just seemed an obvious thing to try as under all that horrible bitumen things are reasonably accessible. Ok, it's messy and stinky, but do-able and worth the effort. I can't of course say it will always cure the problem because if there are shorted turns, it would have to be re-wound anyway. But so far, it has just been insulation breakdown of the primitive fabric/bitumen tape. It is incredible how a better method was not used, surely potting compounds, polythene etc was available back then ? Look at the excellent Thorn jellypot Lopt...a much better way of doing things.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/05/2018 7:50 am
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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RBM did change the design and stopped using the bitumen, the result looked similar to the Jelly pot design. From memory I am sure I had some failures of the new design so they still had problems.

Not all LOPTX’s failed within the service life of the TV, perhaps quality control could have been better,

There is no doubt that Thorn came up with a good design with the Jelly pot.

Frank

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Posted : 08/05/2018 8:05 am
PYE625
(@pye625)
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I guess it must have come down to cost at the end of the day....tight budgets and all that. Sure, I bet a great Lopt overwind could be made....at a price set maker's would wince at.  ?

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/05/2018 9:09 am
PYE625
(@pye625)
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As this was the last day off work, and I already have the chassis and tuners out, I decided to start work on the cabinet restoration. It is in a poor state with missing veneer, chips, scratches and deterioration of the original finish. So, I removed the CRT and found that the front escutcheon and control panel was easily removed by screws. Another messy job, but I want to make the cabinet presentable again. Out with the nitro-mors.....yuk !

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To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/05/2018 6:29 pm
6.3volts
(@6-3volts)
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Posted by: PYE625

One thing I did notice to begin with when first powered, was that the VHF tuner was initially tuned to CH1 and CH9 for ITV. So it makes me wonder if it started off in the London area. Be interesting to discover where the UHF is tuned to.

I grew up in Stockport near Manchester and these were the channels for BBC and ITV. in the 1960s

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Posted : 09/05/2018 9:40 am
Nuvistor
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Posted by: 6.3volts
Posted by: PYE625

One thing I did notice to begin with when first powered, was that the VHF tuner was initially tuned to CH1 and CH9 for ITV. So it makes me wonder if it started off in the London area. Be interesting to discover where the UHF is tuned to.

I grew up in Stockport near Manchester and these were the channels for BBC and ITV. in the 1960s

Holme Moss BBC channel 2, Winter Hill ITA channel 9. In 1965 Winter Hill also had BBC1 on channel 12.

It’s   possible that someone put channel 2 biscuits in the channel 1 position in the tuner but NW England was definitely channel 2 for BBC, or south Lancashire Channel 12 whichever was better reception.

Frank

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Posted : 09/05/2018 11:22 am
Terry
(@terrykc)
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Posted by: Nuvistor

It’s   possible that someone put channel 2 biscuits in the channel 1 position in the tuner but NW England was definitely channel 2 for BBC, or south Lancashire Channel 12 whichever was better reception.

No, impossible as all Bush tuners used incremental tuning so that all of their sets could be tuned to any VHF channel without modification.

This goes back at least as far as the 5-channel tuner on the TV24 and the add-on Band III converter  for it which covered all of Band III.

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 09/05/2018 11:47 am
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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Hi Terry,

I should have been more clear, I was referring to the TV that 6.3 v was using in the 1960’s, it wasn’t mentioned has to what TV it was. Just a suggested possibility why he thought it was channel 1 for BBC in Stockport.

OK on the Bush tuners, knew them well.

Frank

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Posted : 09/05/2018 11:58 am
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
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Posted by: Terry
 
No, impossible as all Bush tuners used incremental tuning so that all of their sets could be tuned to any VHF channel without modification.

This goes back at least as far as the 5-channel tuner on the TV24 and the add-on Band III converter  for it which covered all of Band III.

Strictly speaking, the Bush tuners used in the TV22/24 were continuously variable, as was the TC184 and the tuner in the TV24C etc. The "incremental" design first appeared in the TV53 where the tuning slugs are moved by a cam, as you know.

To my mind at least, "incremental" tuning was that fitted to Pye switch-tuned sets.

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Posted : 09/05/2018 3:32 pm
Terry
(@terrykc)
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Posted by: Cathovisor

Strictly speaking, the Bush tuners used in the TV22/24 were continuously variable, as was the TC184 and the tuner in the TV24C etc. The "incremental" design first appeared in the TV53 where the tuning slugs are moved by a cam, as you know.

To my mind at least, "incremental" tuning was that fitted to Pye switch-tuned sets.

Yes, of course, you are right about the PYE tuners as the inductance was incremented as the channel number decreased to tune to successively lower channels

I'm sure there is a one word description to describe the Bush method other than continuous but can't remember what it is now!

They also used a variant of it in the FM tuner heads, of course.

In essence, there is no mechanical difference between the tuner fitted in the TV53 series and the later push button tuners - if you bolted different mechanics to the front of the TV53 tuner in place of the cam mechanism, it could have also been a push button tuner! In fact, apart from the TV24C, which hand a band switch and two separate knobs for moving the Band I & III tuning wands, every Bush set after that could have had a push button tuner!

Perhaps the reason for mimicking a turret in the earlier years was to match all the other sets on the market - customers might have been put of by a set which didn't have the magic numbers 1 - 13 on one of the controls!

Of course, when other manufacturers started marketing sets with 1 - 9 - 2 - 10 - 3 - 11 etc. sequences to make selection easier, the Bush turret look alike couldn't compete but this was cured with the introduction of Bush Buttons! This left only the Fireball out in the cold.

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 09/05/2018 5:31 pm
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
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Agreed with all the above, especially the leap from pseudo-turret to "Bush Button" - the first time I pulled a Pye Incremental Tuner to bits I wondered how loops of wire in parallel with a short circuit worked, being but a fifteen year old with no idea about VHF electronics!

The 'switchable' tuner featured in the TV43 as well as the TV36C and the TV33 (plus console variants), not a very long life until the TV53 came along, but by then the sets had a whole new "look" to them anyway.

Remind me - was the Fireball the big round biscuit tin-shaped tuner with radial coil biscuits?

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Posted : 09/05/2018 6:07 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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The Fireball tuner was quite compact, radial coils on a flat disk, very often used in Thorn sets. I am trying to find a photo.

Frank

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Posted : 09/05/2018 6:32 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

I just so happen to have a 'Fireball' tuner in stock

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Posted : 09/05/2018 6:38 pm
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Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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Service info of the Fireball tuner in the August 1961 Practical Television available in the library.

Frank

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Posted : 09/05/2018 6:41 pm
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