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Ferguson 3809 BRC 1500

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FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi All
This my first TV restoration in quite a while.

By sheer luck I found this set at a local recycling center, I just happened to be there at the right time.

The plug top fuse and audio output valve PCL82 were missing, after replacing them I had sound and a raster. there were a few faults poor sound, poor video, foldover, all of which were cured by replacing leaky electrolytics. The line sync was drifting, replacing the 30FL2 solved that.

I am left with one strange fault which looks like bad convergence on a colour set, it is particularly bad at the corners and almost OK at the center. Both field and line is affected. I initially thought it may be caused by poor EHT regulation.
I checked the dag earth and the boost cap, replaced the doubler and PL504. The electrolytics that I haven't changed in the set I believe are OK, I tacked some 100uF caps across the caps in the main can just to be sure as I have not changed it.
I replaced the two 1k resistors across the field scan coils as they had risen to 1k3.
All of the above has made no difference.

I have attached two photos of it showing test card F and cross hatch from Mikey's Test card CD. Which is proving very useful, Thanks Mikey.
The photos don't show it very well it is worse in reality.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 12/03/2014 1:09 am
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

Hi,
I can't see it mentioned, but have you tried adjusting the focus? I had poor focus on mine, and it turned out there were some resistors in the focus chain gone high, can't remember which ones they were now!

Could also be low EHT, I wonder if maybe the wrong EHT tray is fitted?

Looks good so far though :aad

Regards,
Lloyd.

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Posted : 12/03/2014 8:36 am
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

Yes try adjusting any focus controls or check the resistor 'ladder'. Sometimes corner focus was a compromise. The main problem could be astigmatism which is likely to be a tube fault. Put simply, it means that you can focus the corners but not the centre or focus the centre but not the corners.....! That's why overall focus may have to be a compromise. However make sure the line stage is working at it's best by substituting new line and boost valves. An extra kV or so of EHT could make all the difference in the corners.

Rich

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Posted : 12/03/2014 9:15 am
Tazman1966
(@tazman1966)
Reputable V-Ratter Registered

Hi Frank.

What a nice find and in such good nick too. I suspect that the tube may be a bit gassy but sure do check those high value resistors in the focus circuit. Also the width (and as a result the boost volts) looks a bit low so you may want to check the high value resistors in the width circuit too.

As a side note, I wonder if Jon Evans (Duke Nukem) has seen this thread. He's been after one of these for absolutely AGES! It was their telly when he was a kid.

Best wishes,

Tas

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Posted : 12/03/2014 9:35 am
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Llyoid, Rich and Taz
Thanks for the replys. R120 1M5 on the hot side of the focus control was O/C and I have replaced it. I haven't checked R135 22k between the focus control and the tube yet. The boost diode I have changed. I fitted a 3 stick EHT tray and it was exactly as before, I am not familiar with this chassis so not sure which one should be fitted.
The lines at the corners of the screen appear to be made up of a few lines that flicker as opposed to one big blurry line. This has the effect of making the corner boxes look like 3D cubes. This cant be seen on the photos. The lines are in sync with the picture they don't move as a hum bar would. It is worse at higher brightness and almost OK at low brightness, which would suggest a EHT problem?

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 12/03/2014 10:02 am
Tazman1966
(@tazman1966)
Reputable V-Ratter Registered

Hmmmm.

EHT may be slightly low but as it's a 20" set, I think a 3 stick tray is correct. Like I say, my money would be on the CRT having a bit of gas. As you've found, lower brightness settings (and contrast too) would limit the symptoms.

Tas

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Posted : 12/03/2014 10:20 am
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

Hmmmm.

Like I say, my money would be on the CRT having a bit of gas.

...in which case it may improve with use as the getter activates and absorbs the gas. May never be perfect and some tubes were like it anyway. Is it a genuine tube or a regun?

Rich

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Posted : 12/03/2014 11:07 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

As a side note, I wonder if Jon Evans (Duke Nukem) has seen this thread. He's been after one of these for absolutely AGES! It was their telly when he was a kid.

Best wishes,

Tas

Here's John's which is similar http://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/ferguson ... rg3809.htm the controls are placed differently on his to the 3809 here.

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Posted : 12/03/2014 11:32 am
Duke Nukem
(@duke-nukem)
Reputable V-Ratter Deactivated Account

Yep, been looking for at least twelve years. Attached is a picture from the mid 70's, as usual with siss getting in the way :bba ... love that wallpaper! The tasteful table that it is resting on is actually the remains of the telly that the Ferguson replaced - a Sobell Sc370 ( http://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/sobell/sc370/sc370.htm ).

TTFN,
Jon

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Posted : 12/03/2014 12:14 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Jon
seeing that it has sentimental value and you've been looking for a long time, You are very welcome to this one FOC. We live quite a distance apart but if you're interested in it we may be able to overcome that. It is in fairly good condition but the tube face is scratched.

Rich
It is fitted with a Mazda Gold Star, original I think. When I get a chance I will leave it running and see what happens. It has been running for no more than a half hour in total so far.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 12/03/2014 7:45 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
(@till)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

Hi Frank,
Good to have you back on the Forum again. Interesting to find an UHF only set in the Republic.
I believe that versions of the 1500 were made with VHF tuners, the familiar MT15 tuner with PC97 and PCF805 valves. A version of the 3000 series colour set designated 3100 was fitted with the valve VHF tuner. In fact there is a winding on the mains transformer for the valve heaters.
It's worth researching to find out if VHF/UHF versions of the 1500 were ever made and marketed in certain countries.

Till Eulenspiegel.

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Posted : 12/03/2014 11:14 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Trevor
Its great to be back, I have allot of catching up to do.
I will adjust the width and give it a good soak test hopefully it will improve.

David
Well spotted you are absolutely right, it must be imported late in its life. I don't think a 625 line set would be any use around this area in the early 70's. It was around 78 when RTE2 started up that we first received 625 lines.
Our first set was bought in the early 70's it was a GEC all valve dual standard VHF only. I don't know it model number but it was probably was made for the Irish market. There was false buttons on the front of it where a UHF tuner would fit and they were labeled BBC1, BBC2 etc.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 13/03/2014 12:41 am
Rally coordinator
(@rallycoordinator)
Busy V-Ratter Deactivated Account

It's worth researching to find out if VHF/UHF versions of the 1500 were ever made and marketed in certain countries.

In 1970 /1971 Technical Trading (Portsmouth branch) were offering brand new fully populated export specification BRC 1500 main PCB chassis for spares or dismantling. (IIRC after 43 years, this was the chassis type.)

I was advised that these had a FM inter-carrier sound IF offset suitable only for mainland Europe and apparently would not work in the UK. Unfortunately my pocket money would not stretch to buying one of these chassis, which were very good value at the time.

Mike

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Posted : 13/03/2014 4:11 pm
Anonymous
(@anonymous)
Illustrious V-Ratter Deactivated Account

, it must be imported late in its life. I don't think a 625 line set would be any use around this area in the early 70's. It was around 78 when RTE2 started up that we first received 625 lines.
Our first set was bought in the early 70's it was a GEC all valve dual standard VHF only. I don't know it model number but it was probably was made for the Irish market. There was false buttons on the front of it where a UHF tuner would fit and they were labeled BBC1, BBC2 etc.

Frank

RTE TV was 625 from the beginning 31st Dec 1961, but stupidly they accommodated people in areas that could get BBC1 & UTV/HTV 405 lines by transmitting downconverted 405 Only on three transmitters. Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Galway, Limerick etc 625.

There was no UHF though till RTE2 started, but even then only some transmitters, Maghera & Mullaghanish were VHF only for RTE1 & RTE2 (till 2012 close down - ASO) only adding UHF to all transmitters for TG4 and later TV3.

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Posted : 13/03/2014 4:49 pm
Duke Nukem
(@duke-nukem)
Reputable V-Ratter Deactivated Account

A little slow of me, but just saying thanks VERY much to Frank for bringing the set with him to the NVCF. You're a true gent sir !

Finally had a play with it today. Decided to give the tube a little bop. Then decided to give it a much bigger bop - the crt emission was well down but is now 4-5 times higher - just into the green. The picture is improved though still defocussed at the edges (just like the other two BRC1500's I've had). Having said that, the test card is a lot better than the attached photo suggests, in this case the fault was the camera's focus!

The width was at max, but replacing the boost cap and one of the resistors in the width circuit remedied that one. Test card had slightly ragety verticals, replacing the sync seperator coupling cap improved it slightly but needs further investigation (the known weakspot R44 in the sync seperator was not to blame).

Anyhow, thanks again Frank :thumb

TTFN,
Jon

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Posted : 25/05/2014 9:16 pm
Focus Diode
(@focus)
Honorable V-Ratter Registered

The picture is improved though still defocussed at the edges (just like the other two BRC1500's I've had).

I've not seen one of these sets which doesn't suffer from this to some degree, usually worsens with higher brightness &/or contrast setting.

For the ragged verticals if the condition varies with the brightness control the EHT doubler is the No.1 suspect.

Cheers,
Brian

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Posted : 25/05/2014 10:53 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Jon
No problem just delighted to be able to unite you with this model.
I have learned something new with this one, I never knew that poor emission could produce poor focus at the the corners, that's one thing I wont forget.

All the best with it.
Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 26/05/2014 12:10 am
AidanLunn
(@aidanlunn)
Prominent V-Ratter Deactivated Account

A little slow of me, but just saying thanks VERY much to Frank for bringing the set with him to the NVCF. You're a true gent sir !

Finally had a play with it today. Decided to give the tube a little bop. Then decided to give it a much bigger bop - the crt emission was well down but is now 4-5 times higher - just into the green. The picture is improved though still defocussed at the edges (just like the other two BRC1500's I've had). Having said that, the test card is a lot better than the attached photo suggests, in this case the fault was the camera's focus!

The width was at max, but replacing the boost cap and one of the resistors in the width circuit remedied that one. Test card had slightly ragety verticals, replacing the sync seperator coupling cap improved it slightly but needs further investigation (the known weakspot R44 in the sync seperator was not to blame).

Anyhow, thanks again Frank :thumb

TTFN,
Jon

I see a nice bit of "feck" and "arse" from the TV after restoration.

Probably what the TV would say if it could speak after such a long time dormant. :aaj

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Posted : 26/05/2014 2:14 pm
Tazman1966
(@tazman1966)
Reputable V-Ratter Registered

Hi Jon and all.

So you waited over twelve years for one of these to turn up and now one's appeared on eBay!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Retro-Televis ... 4ada206591

Looks good too.

Tas

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Posted : 09/08/2014 5:53 pm
valvekits
(@valvekits)
Prominent V-Ratter Deactivated Account

"Just right for retro nut's"

Ha, I hope he doesn't mean us. :cch

Eddie

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Posted : 09/08/2014 6:07 pm
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