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It eventually made it to the bench! (TV22)

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davegsm82
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Well done to Chris for getting everything back up again, fortunately I had a copy of this window open on my Laptop and was able to copy-paste the text before refreshing the page.

'It' being a TV22 donated to me by David Boynes a good few years ago.

After tentitively removing that terrifying pyrex tube, I got the chassis onto the bench and started prodding and poking with a meter, service manual in the other hand.

First issue was the lack of heater chain continuity, after linking out the CRT heaters and a missing EF91 (not sure if I have one of these spare :aaf ) there was still no continuity or at least it was very high resistance, in the order of 1M or so, I put this quite rightly down to duff heater decoupling waxies.

After working my way right from the top of the heater chain, all the way to the bottom, I found that as always, it's the last thing you check, or in this case, the last thing you CAN check. The link across the CRT heater was floating a meg or so above earth (chassis) but on the diagram it should have been a direct short. After flipping the chassis over, I found that a nut and bolt hadn't been tightened, possibly ever! I think it may have left the factory like this and just worked because the chassis was clean. Now it's not so clean and the solder tag connection had turned into a resistor.

With that tightened up, I found the mains switch was intermittent, so a good dousing with Super-10 and working back and forward saw it working perfectly again.

Next thing checked was the dropper, all fine and dandy here, good continuity to and from the PZ30.

I located a suitable plug (or should that be trailing socket?) from a bag of stuff I bought years ago, it's a proper 2-pin job and fits the connector on the back perfectly, I presume it's from a TV or radio.

With this plugged into a shaver adaptor (the other end is an old 5A 2 pin plug) I threw it into the isolated variac and started to gradually apply some volts, with a meter clipped onto the HT rail of course.

Not a lot happened until I got to 70-80 volts in, then the HT started to rise, I let it get to 50v and backed off the variac to let the smoothers reform. At this point something distracted me on my phone and for a few minutes my mind was elsewhere, when I got back to the real world I noticed something, a high pitched 'EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....' Could it be? Line whistle? at 50v~ HT?

Sure enough, I took a grounded screwdriver and was able to draw the tiniest of sparks from the EHT winding :aad

I hunted out an EY51 as this was missing, but found that it wouldn't provide any DC on the cathode :aaq

After some digging and tinkering I realised that it was simply because there wasn't enough drive for the heater, phew! this is a relief as I only have 1 EY51. I tested it by shoving 6.3v on the heater and 30V on the anode, the meter on the bench supply moved ever-so-slightly which was good enough to prove emission for me.

There were a couple of wires hanging down inside the chassis which had been cut/snapped off, I'd already identified these as being from the audio output transformer, so I hooked them up to the test speakers hanging underneath the shelves, 2x 8ohm in parallel is close enough to the original speaker (Which is unfortunately RUINED in this set, I need a replacement). I found that the audio signal from the RF deck simply comes in from the 5-pin plug at the rear, I subsequently shoved in a .47uF cap into the back of the plug and connected this to my phone via the headphone socket.

At this point the audio amplifier sprang into life too! good quality sound as well.

The next few hours (also this morning) have been spent gradually increasing the input voltage to about 180VAC where it's at now. The line whistle is stronger and the Frame transformer is buzzing away quite merrily too, however one thing I noticed is that the Audio output isn't really any louder at 50V than it is with the HT up at 120-150 :aab Seems quite odd.

Of course I've changed the capacitors on the Audio and Line pentodes as they were leaky, the audio one especially so (oddly the line one wasn't bad) and will get round to changing the rest soon, I just don't have enough stock at the minute, sure I have some 10 and 100nF PCB mount caps but they look ugly extended across tagboard, I'd like to find some good axial wire ended ones if possible.

I suppose the next step after the waxies is to refit that terrifying pyrex thing, not looking forward to that, especially since I had to repair the base and the HT cap with epoxy since they were hanging off.

One question;

How much EHT voltage should there be on a healthy TV22 (under no-load other than the EHT phobe)?

Thanks, Dave.

https://sites.google.com/site/davegsm82/projects/radioputer - A BC5441 Turned into a Media Centre PC.

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 9:00 am
crustytv
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I think the TV22 bulb is much less scary and feels positively robust compared to the Mazda counter parts.

I have a murphy V230 with a CRM124, that gives me the right Heebie-jeebies. If you tap the bulb with the back of your nail on the MW22-16 it sounds thicker, same done to a CRM124 feels as thin as a wine glass.

Like you Jeffrey I'm not convinced its Pyrex, I'm sure I read Pyrex is a hard glass and the glass used in Mullard & Mazda tubes is a soft glass.

I was also under the impression that rather than being afraid of roundies ( with exception of the mazda bombs) its the rectangular ones that defy nature more.

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Posted : 06/06/2014 9:33 am
davegsm82
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I could have sworn I'd read plenty about it being made of Pyrex...

Anyway, it's still scary, it's quite light for the size of it so I can imagine it's fairly thin.

Once I get first light I will have to consider buying or making a standards converter, I'd rather make something as I don't plan to collect 405 stuff, I simply don't have the room :bbd

Dave.

https://sites.google.com/site/davegsm82/projects/radioputer - A BC5441 Turned into a Media Centre PC.

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 9:57 am
malcscott
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I think the gun assy is pyrex.

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 10:36 am
mark pirate
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I thought that Pyrex tubes were only fitted to pre-war TV's?
I agree about the Mazda CRT's being scarily thin, I have a CRM 121 which is awaiting refitting to a set.
I certainly won't attempt that after a few beers :cca :cca

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 10:05 pm
linesync
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I also thought pyrex was only used in pre war t.v,s.
I know from experience that RACS the tube regunners in france had great difficultly with pyrex crt,s but they rebuilt crm121,s and the mallard 9" mw22 series.

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 11:03 pm
hamid_1
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Davegsm82: You seem to be making some progress with restoring your TV22. You mentioned that you could hear the line whistle and the frame buzz, as well as obtaining a tiny spark from the EHT, but as yet, no "first light". You also mentioned that you don't have a standards converter yet.

Last year I started restoring a Bush TV22 (the Mk. 2 version, using EF80 valves in the RF deck) with similar results. After powering it up slowly on the variac, I could hear the line whistle and get a small spark from the EHT, but no picture on screen, even at 240 volts. The EY51 heater was lit, though.

I only got brightness on the screen after connecting the Aurora to the aerial socket. In my case, first light was a dim horizontal line, as the frame oscillator blocking transformer was faulty. With no signal connected, there wasn't even a line, just a blank screen.

I think if you connect a signal, you may be rewarded with some kind of picture. Maybe there's someone near you who has a standards converter. You could take your set there and try it.

As for capacitors, I ordered some of the "Suntan" ones from here : http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-c ... itor-71096
They have quite long leads and they're cheap as chips! Some more cheap high voltage caps here (I used these to replace the heater decouplers) : http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-c ... tors-74530

I went ahead and re-capped my set, even though I could not get any frame scan. Afterwards the horizontal line was a lot brighter. I used the line oscillator transformer from a Thorn 1500 chassis as a substitute for the failed frame blocking TX in the TV22. It worked reasonably well. I got a quite good picture but the frame linearity was slightly out, which may be due to the substitute transformer.

Yes the CRT does seem a bit scary. Mine has a small air bubble trapped in the glass. Does this make it more likely to implode?

 
Posted : 06/06/2014 11:49 pm
davegsm82
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Hamid_1,

I tried getting first light last night but as yet have had no luck, I refitted the tube and powered up all the way to full mains voltage.

Even with the lights out there was no sign of anything on the screen at all, no flicker, no line, no dull glow. Even with no signal I think there should still be some sort of output, the tube should be biased on a little bit (in theory, I've not checked the caps around the control grid of the tube).

I know there are a few people around me who have an Aurora, once I get a few more caps replaced and do some voltage checks then I'll maybe ask to borrow or bring my set to them.

One thing I noticed is that I was only able to achieve about 2.6kV on the EHT with my probe attached, perhaps this isn't enough to get those electrons firing their way to the phosphor.

My tube also has a little bubble in the glass of the faceplate, I've heard horror stories about them imploding but I figure that if it's lasted this long then it probably isn't going to just let go of its own accord, I doubt thermal stress from operation will cause an issue.

Anyway, feeling a little dejected I shoved the 22 back on the shelf in order to have a look at a little KB FB10, at least I managed to get 'first squeak' out of that, an odd little radio that one, the 6BW6 gets rather hot so i suspect the few paper 'orrible hunts on the underside are all duffers.

Dave.

https://sites.google.com/site/davegsm82/projects/radioputer - A BC5441 Turned into a Media Centre PC.

 
Posted : 07/06/2014 9:32 am
Doz
 Doz
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Have you wiggled the ion trap magnet around?

 
Posted : 07/06/2014 11:17 am
davegsm82
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Have you wiggled the ion trap magnet around?

No, unfortunately it was loose when I got the set, does it have a 'pre-set' position on the tube? unless I'm totally mistaken the one in my set looks like a tube clamp but just floats around on the neck, seems to have a very small magnet opposite the screw-clamp.

Can anyone advise how to set this up?

Thanks, Dave.

https://sites.google.com/site/davegsm82/projects/radioputer - A BC5441 Turned into a Media Centre PC.

 
Posted : 07/06/2014 11:27 am
Doz
 Doz
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Run the set up and wiggle it around for maximum brightness and no corner shading. There's an arrow on some which should be pointing towards the face of the tube, otherwise it's a bit of a guess job. You stand a strong chance of getting nothing with it in the wrong place!

If you are worried that with your low EHT, you won't see a raster, make some interference with an electric bell mechanism, or relay wired to oscillate. You'll see that with the wiring in proximity.

 
Posted : 07/06/2014 12:52 pm
EDDINNING
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Hi Dave, the LOPT sec is usually Ok on these, but it is the primaries that go faulty. After the set has run for a while and when switched off and discharged, see if the lower end of the LOPT tube is hot. This may be a sign of shorted turns on the pri.

Ed

 
Posted : 07/06/2014 8:48 pm
davegsm82
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Thanks Doz and Ed, I'll give those things a try. The line whistle isn't as ear-piercing as I'd expected it to be so shorted turns could be an issue.

Thanks, Dave.

https://sites.google.com/site/davegsm82/projects/radioputer - A BC5441 Turned into a Media Centre PC.

 
Posted : 08/06/2014 2:06 pm
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