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KB Westbury (WV70)

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Jamie
(@jskinner97)
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Hi All, I spotted a KB Westbury in a local antique shop a few months ago, and fell in love with it. At the time the shop was asking £75. Too steep...

I went back today, and he accepted an offer of £60 which is fair. It may seem a lot, but don't forget what's happening on ebay these days, especially with early dual standard sets!

I notice it's been for sale for well over a year, for a MUCH higher price so I feel a bit chuffed now!  http://vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?p=853741

Before I bought it, I did whip the back off and check the tube, as the cowling was damaged but the tube is fine.

I got it home, and cracked it open. All looked good, a nice layer of dust, no damaged components, all it's valves and all looked untouched. Being a 60s set and not an older one, I decided to pop it on the lamp limiter and hope for the best. Sadly it's dead as a dodo. I haven't investigated anymore but I will in time. I read that these sets were pretty bulletproof and very few went wrong. Also of course being dual standard I don't need an aurora! Happy days. 

https://uploadir.com/u/tkuduafr.png

 
Posted : 19/12/2016 9:24 pm
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PYE625
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Well done, a good price I say Jamie.

I believe the LOPT is not so bullet proof, so be careful bang_gif

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 19/12/2016 9:48 pm
crustytv
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Service data for the KB WV70 now resides in the data library

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Posted : 19/12/2016 10:04 pm
Marc
 Marc
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Nice set Jamie, I have it's big brother WV90. Fingers crossed the LOPT is OK.

Marc.

Marc
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RSGB call sign 2E0VTN

 
Posted : 19/12/2016 10:06 pm
crustytv
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PYE625 said

I believe the LOPT is not so bullet proof, so be careful bang_gif  

Absolutely agree, the LOPTs are hardly bullet proof. Good thing is Mike Barker can rewind them if yours proves to be dead or dies shortly thereafter.

Lucky for you the set was DOA. Before powering on you should have inspected the system switch, this is another Achilles heel. As you don't have an Aurora I would set it to the 625 position ( shown below is 405 position, step left by one for 625) ensuring the contacts are clean and correctly aligned then leave it there whilst you perform repairs.

ssw.jpg

I know you intend to investigate further at a later date but it would have been nice for the curious to speculate a little further whilst waiting. Like were the valves and CRT filaments visibly glowing? Perhaps D10 (HT diode) has failed quite common on this chassis, original was a DD268 but may have already been replaced in the past with a BY100.

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Posted : 19/12/2016 10:20 pm
Nuvistor
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Interestingly all the valves are Mullard type numbers apart from the sound IF amp V10 which is a Brimar 6BW7, a near equivalent to an EF80.

KB usually used Brimar valves with the connection to STC, I understand Brimar did make some, perhaps most of the Mullard range but perhaps did not have a license, for whatever reason, to make an EF80. They have adverts for ECF82 and ECC84 types.

Next time you have the back off the set I would be interested to know if they valves, apart from replacements, are Brimar types with Mullard part numbers.

Frank

Frank

 
Posted : 19/12/2016 10:42 pm
Nuvistor
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Chris said

 

Lucky for you the set was DOA. Before powering on you should have inspected the system switch, this is another Achilles heel. As you don't have an Aurora I would set it to the 625 position ( shown below is 405 position, step left by one for 625) ensuring the contacts are clean and correctly aligned then leave it there whilst you perform repairs.

ssw.jpg

System switches, they did give a bit of trouble during the sets normal service life but I only ever changed the odd one. Usually a clean was all that was required. Considering the job they had to do I think that's quite good.

Off course the advice from Chris is wise, damp may be in the paxolin, switching may put strain on other items, so need to take care.

Frank

Frank

 
Posted : 19/12/2016 10:47 pm
Jamie
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Chris said

PYE625 said

I believe the LOPT is not so bullet proof, so be careful bang_gif  

Absolutely agree, the LOPTs are hardly bullet proof. Good thing is Mike Barker can rewind them if yours proves to be dead or dies shortly thereafter.

Lucky for you the set was DOA. Before powering on you should have inspected the system switch, this is another Achilles heel. As you don't have an Aurora I would set it to the 625 position ( shown below is 405 position, step left by one for 625) ensuring the contacts are clean and correctly aligned then leave it there whilst you perform repairs.

ssw.jpg

I know you intend to investigate further at a later date but it would have been nice for the curious to speculate a little further whilst waiting. Like were the valves and CRT filaments visibly glowing? Perhaps D10 (HT diode) has failed quite common on this chassis, original was a DD268 but may have already been replaced in the past with a BY100.  

Hi Chris, it was drawing no current at all according to the lamp limiter. No heaters or anything I checked the obvious, plug, fuse and bulb so it could even be the switch or as you say D10. 

 

It it should be ok, no signs of it having been damp. If this shop had had it since 2015 it'll be nice and dry, as it's based in an old factory and they had ancient ceiling mounted central heating (basically huge 6 inch diameter pipes with hot water in) and they certainly kept the damp away.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 8:07 am
crustytv
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Jamie said
No heaters or anything I checked the obvious, plug, fuse and bulb so it could even be the switch or as you say D10. 

By the way D10 is the H.T. rectifier so won't be related to your current scenario

Could well be the switch if I remember rightly mine was duff, don't forget to check all the valves are present ( i had one missing embarassed) and I got caught out with that way back, one ticked away I had not noticed gone. Personally I think LL's are more suited to radios, I've never used a lamp limiter on a B&W TV. Always found bringing them up on a variac whilst monitoring the rails with the meter far more beneficial and informative, each to his own though. Look forward to your investigations when you find time.

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Posted : 20/12/2016 10:04 am
Cathovisor
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You soon get to know the sound and feel of a dead/lazy switch in a volume control; if it sounds like it's operating in two stages that's a sure sign it's poorly. A meter across it will be the answer of course.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 10:38 am
PYE625
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nuvistor said

Chris said

 

Lucky for you the set was DOA. Before powering on you should have inspected the system switch, this is another Achilles heel. As you don't have an Aurora I would set it to the 625 position ( shown below is 405 position, step left by one for 625) ensuring the contacts are clean and correctly aligned then leave it there whilst you perform repairs.
ssw.jpg

System switches, they did give a bit of trouble during the sets normal service life but I only ever changed the odd one. Usually a clean was all that was required. Considering the job they had to do I think that's quite good.

Off course the advice from Chris is wise, damp may be in the paxolin, switching may put strain on other items, so need to take care.

Frank  

I echo this most strongly....it was my flicking between 405/625 that screwed a LOPT in a set I had with the same chassis a few years back. Wish I knew then what I know now.

So, when you get her working, DON'T switch standards unless you power down the set first.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 6:34 pm
Cathovisor
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PYE625 said

I echo this most strongly....it was my flicking between 405/625 that screwed a LOPT in a set I had with the same chassis a few years back. Wish I knew then what I know now.

So, when you get her working, DON'T switch standards unless you power down the set first.  

That shouldn't be necessary; a well-designed set usually has a break-before-make section in the system switch feeding the line output valve screen grid - the purpose being to disable the line output stage sufficiently long enough for the line oscillator to change speed. However, who knows what was perpetrated in the early convertible sets? Certainly the later VC51 chassis does switch off the line stage via the method described when changing standards.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 7:01 pm
PYE625
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Cathovisor said

That shouldn't be necessary; a well-designed set usually has a break-before-make section in the system switch feeding the line output valve screen grid - the purpose being to disable the line output stage sufficiently long enough for the line oscillator to change speed. However, who knows what was perpetrated in the early convertible sets? Certainly the later VC51 chassis does switch off the line stage via the method described when changing standards.  

You would certainly hope so wouldn't you. But get a sloppy switch action, dirty contacts and some arching, then who knows what could happen.

I was sure the system switch in my set was clean and in good condition, but I remember selecting 405 and then back to 625 and then the picture disappeared with a wiggly horizontal line and a horrible fizzing and spitting in the LOPT department. That was it. PL36 anode started glowing red and one dead LOPT.

This was all before the forums and ebay, so I assumed I would never get a replacement LOPT and scrapped the whole set. cry

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 7:30 pm
Cathovisor
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PYE625 said

You would certainly hope so wouldn't you. But get a sloppy switch action, dirty contacts and some arching, then who knows what could happen.

I was sure the system switch in my set was clean and in good condition, but I remember selecting 405 and then back to 625 and then the picture disappeared with a wiggly horizontal line and a horrible fizzing and spitting in the LOPT department. That was it. PL36 anode started glowing red and one dead LOPT.

This was all before the forums and ebay, so I assumed I would never get a replacement LOPT and scrapped the whole set. cry  

Some sets and chassis were notorious for having particularly sloppy switching action; especially when the switches could be up to eighteen inches long and were run from Bowden cables. I was always amazed at the arrangement in the RBM A640 and wondered how that never caused more trouble than it did!

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 8:09 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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nuvistor said
Interestingly all the valves are Mullard type numbers apart from the sound IF amp V10 which is a Brimar 6BW7, a near equivalent to an EF80.

Brimar had been making and marketing valves with the pro-electron codes since the mid fifties. The 6BW7 RF pentode was developed by STC, the gm is slightly better than the EF80. The PCF82/9U8 is interesting and in fact the "F" section is a beam tetrode. The 9U8 and 6U8 was developed in the USA.  You'll find many Brimar valves with European type codes are marked "foreign made" and were made by SEL in Germany. KB preferred to fit the PY83 boost diode in lieu of the Philips developed PY81.

Early VC1 sets employed two 6BW7 pentodes in the sound IF/intercarrier amplifiers stages, VC2 only one 6BW7 was employed.  Most likely reason why the 6BW7 was substituted for the EF80 is because by the end of the sixties Brimar was no longer an STC owned company, Brimar was acquired by Thorn-AEI valves and tubes Ltd. Mullard CRTs were being fitted in VC4 sets in 1966.

KB made great emphasis of the "Handwired" chassis in the advertising of these sets although it is said that the real reason why the sets were made in this manner was because there was production or development problems with PCBs of the companies first dual standard TVs. Confirmation required of this fact.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 8:41 pm
Nuvistor
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Till Eulenspiegel said

KB made great emphasis of the "Handwired" chassis in the advertising of these sets although it is said that the real reason why the sets were made in this manner was because there was production or development problems with PCBs of the companies first dual standard TVs. Confirmation required of this fact.

Till Eulenspiegel.

I only saw a few of the early DS KB sets, only started to sell them with the ITT label colour sets.

I do though remember the adverts about the wired chassis, I repaired a couple of 60's KB radio grams and they were wired chassis as well. Unfortunately both items had poor soldering to chassis lugs causing instability, easy enough to fix, clean and resolder all those chassis grounding lugs. So much for wired chassis adverts, although 50 years later they will be a better proposition than many PCB's.

Frank

Frank

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 8:55 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Hi Frank, that's right, there was a few assembly woes with the handwired chassis but nowadays I reckon anyone wishing to include a dual standard TV in a collection you couldn't do better than any of the VC series sets.  Best of the lot is the VC52.   And how about the handwired KB colour TVs? Especially the very rare CVC1.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 20/12/2016 9:10 pm
Forum 142
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Till Eulenspiegel said

KB made great emphasis of the "Handwired" chassis in the advertising of these sets although it is said that the real reason why the sets were made in this manner was because there was production or development problems with PCBs of the companies first dual standard TVs. 

On this side of the pond it was Zenith (Chicago, Illinois) that bragged of 'hand crafted" (hand wired) TV chassis as late as the 1970s.

Here's an example of Zenith's TV advertising, with interesting commentary from the website's author. 

 
Posted : 27/12/2016 10:52 pm
peterscott
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"In 1971, a lot of people still didn’t have color TV, so hue was a new concept."

I wonder how many people were disappointed to find that whatever they did with the hue control they couldn't achieve the colour quality shown in the brochures.

Peter 

www.nostalgiatech.co.uk

 
Posted : 28/12/2016 9:55 am
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