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Mystery Ferranti Set  

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lotsalines
(@lotsalines)
Busy V-Ratter Registered

Hello everyone.

First proper post on here and I hope you can all help me identify this televsion.

I've had it for a while and have not been able to find any information on it apart from the following:

Its a telly, it's black and white and it's Ferranti.

fer

Does not have a back on it or any info sheet inside.

Brought it up on a variac/bulb a while ago and it does show some signs of life however I have not had it on for very long.

Needless to say I will be changing out the waxies in it and hopefully not too much more though im sure i'll be eating those words.

It does not have a raster or any kind of light on screen but the picture tube itself does seem to be intact and do get a line whistle from it.

15 valve exc the picture tube.

There is no sound on the set but the audio output does seem to work, does have some crackle from the sound dial and channel select.

Would like to get it going again but would be nice to identify the set and get some tips off of those who know more about it than I do before jumping in head first and ruining a nice set.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, will have more pictures soon.

 

Quote
Posted : 03/03/2020 9:44 am
helloekco and PYE625 liked
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

It looks very much like the Ferranti T1055/ T1055F, (F) being the fringe version and as such would have the additional fly-wheel sync circuitry. Without seeing the chassis I'd say I'm fairly sure it is the model suggested. With a brief rummage of the Ferranti service data I have, it certainly looks highly probable. Using the first photo below, you will see all the valves listed, see if they tie up with what you have. Using the third photo of the rear chassis plan view, does it look laid out the same as yours.

fer1
fer2
fer5
fer3

As for basic tips on getting started, this is worth a read.

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Posted : 03/03/2020 10:08 am
lotsalines
(@lotsalines)
Busy V-Ratter Registered

I'll take a look at the valves and see which ones the set has.

In the meantime here's a photo of the back.

It does differ a bit from the suggested model.

IMG 0235

It seems odd that the set design pictured has the neckboard on at a different angle than my set when they both look so similar.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/03/2020 12:12 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

OK thanks for that, not a T1055 then.... DOH!

Back to the drawing board. I will check my EKCO cards as Ferranti/EKCO are pretty much the same, Ferranti sets used EKCO chassis', so it might offer up something. Hopefully Stephen (Freya) might pop along as he's a bit of an EKCO guru and might recognise the EKCO chassis clothed in the Ferranti box.

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Posted : 03/03/2020 12:21 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Now armed with the photo you provided of the chassis...... Bingo!

As suspected your set does indeed utilise an EKCO chassis. To be precise, it uses the EKCO TP347 chassis dating from 1959 and is covered in Trader sheet 1435 (chassis used in the Ferranti TP1026). As you can see from the extracts I've provided below, the left-hand side panel and main panel are an identical match for yours. If you use the forum image viewer, you can quickly go back and forth between the latter two pictures below, to verify.

I also note your LOPT housing has suffered the usual degradation due to the material EKCO used, there are countless threads on here about this. Fear not, the LOPTs on their sets are virtually bomb proof and it will work, at least for testing purposes, though you may not wish to leave it that way long term. You would be wise to fabricate a new housing structure for it, there are folk here who have carried out such a task and will no doubt offer advice on the method and materials required.

ccttp347
chas2
chas1
chas3

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Posted : 03/03/2020 1:42 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

I don’t recall seeing one of those, if I did it must have been a rarity at the shop I worked at.

Frank

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Posted : 03/03/2020 6:32 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
(@till)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

The chassis is similar to the Ekco TP347 and Ferranti TP1026.    The set being discussed is one of those rare 19" "square screen" models introduced in 1961.  A year to be remembered in the UK as a bad time for the television manufacturing industry. 

Till Eulenspiegel.

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Posted : 04/03/2020 11:03 am
freya
(@freya)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

My index sheet suggests I do have the genuine service data for the TP347, if its required I can upload.

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Posted : 04/03/2020 12:55 pm
lotsalines
(@lotsalines)
Busy V-Ratter Registered

Massive thank you for identifying the set.

It's been sat about in a sorry state for far too long now. Capacitors to replace the waxies are on their way so hopefully tomorrow I should be able to change most of them out.

I have searched around for an image of the set using the stated Ferranti & Ekco models provided but I was not able to find any matching other than that portable plastic model. If anybody would like to see any part of the set in detail please let me know and i'll provide more images of it.

I would be beyond grateful for any service data on the set. Currently pouring through an assortment of generic TV basics as well as other set designs and 405 line TV data to help understand the set a little better. This was the first valve television I ever brought so to see even a folded in shrivelled up state of a raster on it would be a dream come true!

Also, why was 61 a bad year for the industry?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/03/2020 8:37 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin
Posted by: @lotsalines

I would be beyond grateful for any service data on the set.

I have this morning e-mailed you the Trader sheet service data covering the EKCO TP437, which is the chassis inside your Ferranti. Trader sheets are perfect and you should be able to effect a repair from it.

This is a good will gesture because members normally have to earn access to the sites service data library before gaining any data (as detailed in rule #5 here). This is historically due to a lot of folk turning up purely to get free data. No intention of contributing posts to the community, and we'd never see them again. I trust in this case this does not apply and you wish to be part of this fantastic community.

Looking forward to you becoming an active member and following your exploits/reports, as you repair this old TV. The more active you become and your post count rises, you will soon gain full access to the data library which has a wealth of information contained within.  Our operational model is different from other sites, we don't charge for data, we run a symbiotic relationship. Our members help us grow as a forum and community, we help them with the all important service information to keep this old technology running, its a win win 👍 

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Posted : 05/03/2020 9:01 am
lotsalines
(@lotsalines)
Busy V-Ratter Registered

Another massive thank you, i'll go check my emails for it.
I'm fairly certain I won't be going anywhere soon.
If I did i'd most likely get stuck at the first hurdle and end up back here anyway! 😆 
I cannot understand why anybody would do so anyway.
The only people I can think of who are going to go out of their way to get a 405 line set up and running in 2020 would have to have enough interest on the subject to properly join a forum community and order a few books as well as collect a lot of dedicated equipment to the task.
Needless to say I look forward to sharing my progress with the set and hopefully one day have a lovely picture on it to share with you all. 👍 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/03/2020 9:20 am
crustytv liked
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin
Posted by: @lotsalines

I cannot understand why anybody would do so anyway.

Oh, your toes would curl at some of the antics we've had to endure over the years. Anyway that's by the by, I've no wish to take your thread off at an unrelated tangent. Suffice to say, welcome to the community and you've certainly come to the right place for television repair advice. There's lots of ex trade engineers here who worked on these sets at the time and an even greater number of experienced amateur bench techs.

Crusty's Collection: Read the repair blogs
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Posted : 05/03/2020 9:32 am
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

With regard to the LOPT, it's only the housing that has 'melted'...perhaps decomposed would be a better term. I have seen some LOPTs rebuilt using thick Paxolin sheet but the insulation properties of paxolin doesn't really extend to EHT levels and it tends to 'track' and eventually arc and cause burning. Better to use thick Perspex sections. A great pity that you can't order a replacement housing from Ekco any more!

 

Having said that, it should be possible to get the set running without worrying about the housing at the moment. All you need to do is position the EHT rectifier away from the windings sufficiently to prevent arcing and it can just 'hang in there' until the housing can be sorted.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 10:08 am
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator
Posted by: @lotsalines

Massive thank you for identifying the set.

It's been sat about in a sorry state for far too long now. Capacitors to replace the waxies are on their way so hopefully tomorrow I should be able to change most of them out.

If I might make a practical suggestion, rather than changing out most of the capacitors, I suggest you replace just crucial ones at the moment. These would be: Boost capacitor, audio coupling, frame timebase coupling, line timebase coupling, line timebase screen grid decoupler, sync coupler (though probably not so critical at this stage).

The reason for this is to gauge the 'state of play' of the rest of the set. No point in replacing all the capacitors only to find that the CRT is duff or the LOPT is duff or the frame output tranny is duff. These things can be sorted in time but a lot of time can be spent (wasted)? replacing all the capacitors and still not have a working set. Of course it's up to you in the end.

I tend to do blocks of replacements. After the crucial ones suggested above, if the set sort of works but has a distorted raster you can then decide whether to recap the line or field stage first. I prefer recapping the line stage since this is prone to more serious damage if not working correctly (and there are usually fewer capacitors involved). As I said, it's up to you. There is more danger of making an error if all capacitors are replaced at once and it can then be a real challenge to find the fault since you don't know if you are chasing a 'real' fault or a 'man-made' fault. 

Oh yes, if there is a capacitor across the mains, disconnect it to avoid a spectacular explosion! It can be replaced with a proper 'X' cap or even left out completely.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 10:31 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Wise words from Rich (ex Philips TV engineer) the same, sound advice was drummed into me when I first started 👍 

If you're new to TV's you might find this useful. It might also help if you state your level of experience, that way folk can pitch their advice accordingly, don't want to blind you with science but equally no egg sucking either. Might also be worth stating what equipment you have, all you really need is a multimeter and a soldering iron, though you'd be surprised we've had folk turn up without either.

Advice I offered 'HelloEkco', another recent new member who is also repairing an EKCO T344 TV, is to pick up a copy of "Television Receiver servicing" By E.A.W. Spreadbury. An excellent book which is a must-read for anyone attempting to understand 405 television theory. Vol 1 covers Time base circuits, Vol 2 covers Receiver and Power supply. The books assume a basic level of pre knowledge gained on radio servicing.

Spreadbury can be sourced from Amazon or Abebooks, prices vary.

Crusty's Collection: Read the repair blogs
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Posted : 05/03/2020 10:39 am
lotsalines
(@lotsalines)
Busy V-Ratter Registered

Well it turned out the .1uf capactiors arrived today before I got to read what sideband had to say.

I would like to say that I hope that the set will one day work so it is worth changing them out blindly but sadly the real world does not work how I hope it does.
I did swap out all the .1uf's I could spot in the set as well as C80 and now I seem to have vertical deflection (or at least I can hear it).
Line whistle is a lot louder but I still have no raster.
I can see a blue glow from V12 which has me worried as to where the EHT is going with no sign of life at all from the picture tube.
I'm going to have a look round for the suggested books for now.
Also loving the picture that's appeared on my profile.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 11:50 am
crustytv liked
PYE625
(@pye625)
Famed V-Ratter Registered
Posted by: @lotsalines

I can see a blue glow from V12 which has me worried as to where the EHT is going with no sign of life at all from the picture tube.

It is a possibility that V12 has an open circuit heater and this will cause a faint blue glow in the valve with no EHT to the tube. I think it will be a type U26 and these can be obtained from ebay at not too silly prices. (Worth having a spare if you don't have one already). 😉 

If not the valve heater, then a poor contact in the socket or a broken connection could of course be the cause.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 7:46 pm
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator
Posted by: @lotsalines

Line whistle is a lot louder but I still have no raster.
I can see a blue glow from V12 which has me worried as to where the EHT is going with no sign of life at all from the picture tube.

Well now this next step is up to you....although it sounds quite dramatic its actually quite safe as long as you keep your fingers out of the way....You need a well insulated screwdriver....one with a nice thick plastic or rubber handle is ideal. Holding the handle, bring the blade close to the anode of the EHT rectifier. If the line stage is working correctly or at least reasonably well, you should be able to draw a spark of a centimeter or so long. Now try the cathode at the other end (connected to the EHT cap). You should also be able to draw a spark perhaps slightly larger and more yellow. If you can't get a sizeable spark from the anode then it's likely there is still a problem in the line stage. If you can but nothing from the cathode, it could simply be the EHT rectifier that's failed.

Check some voltages (boost HT is important.....somewhere between 400 and 600 volts, check what the circuit says) with a meter but DON'T put the test prods on the top cap of the line output valve.

Seems like you are nearly there, clearly there seems to be plenty of activity in the line stage.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 8:06 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

The EHT valve bases did tend to rot with green spot but that happened to other makes as well.

 

 

Frank

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Posted : 05/03/2020 10:24 pm
helloekco
(@helloekco)
Trusted V-Ratter Registered

Hi @lotsalines,

As mentioned I'm currently repairing an Ekco T344 which is similar to your TV, and I'm a bit of a noob too 🙂.

I was in a similar situation whereby I'd obtained a line whistle, I had EHT, but nothing on the screen - in my case the cause turned out to be a bad cap / resistor in the brightness control circuit - it was as simple as that!

Good luck.

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Posted : 05/03/2020 11:31 pm
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