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Forum 141

[Closed] Philips 563A Radio/Television Table Model

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Brian Cuff
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Hi all.
This is the TV I bought on ebay from Selby and after getting it home (thanks again Guys) I must say that I'm very pleased with my purchase. Not too much rust and pretty original. Some bad rubber wire and some good so I will only replace the bad! One problem is that one of the clips which hold the glass radio scale was missing so I will have to make a wooden block and bronze clip.
I am not going to start it straight away but after printing out the service data (thanks Jon) I decided to get it out of the cabinet - first mistake :bbd ............ READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. I made sure that I read the "removing CRT" bit and I thought that I had read the "Getting the chassis out" bit but obviously I had only read the first bit. It said remove all knobs and mentions something about the side knobs. Anyway, I struggled for about an hour after releasing, what I eventually found out, were the wrong ones for the side knobs. This left short bits of 1/4" adapter sticking out and made the chassis too wide to get out. Then I noticed the holes to access the screws mentioned in the instructions. Wrong screws! The correct ones released the adapters so the chassis just slid out!
The chassis is in two parts connected by two tag strips, the signal part and the TB and PSU part. I can understand this being done for two reasons: the complete chassis is very heavy and awkward and model 463A is a TV only version so will have a completely different signal chassis.
Fortunately, I found the missing scale clip skulking around on the chassis together with a missing focus knob so that's saved me a bit of work. It has now been screwed and glued back in place.
I must say that it is a very interesting set - typically Philips. Most early Radio/TVs used completely separate or at least separate RF stages but this set uses complicated switching to combine the frequency changers - yes, frequency changers - one for vision and one for radio and TV sound. The valves used are ECH35s with the triode sections operating as a push-pull oscillator.
The pictures show the chassis and one of the interconnecting tag strips.
Sorry about the vignetting on the pictures - that's my new ring light but it's no good for wideangle shots!!!

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Posted : 29/04/2014 11:12 pm
AidanLunn
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I take it this is from a few years after the 485U and associated models? The chassis is a totally different beast!

 
Posted : 29/04/2014 11:28 pm
Brian Cuff
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It's earlier than the 485u, Aidan - released in 1948, I think. The EF50s are a giveaway and the only miniature valves are EB91s. Heaters are parallel and the HT rectifier is full wave. The only concession to modernity is using the fly back pulse from the LOP valve anode for EHT generation but even then it uses a voltage doubler using huge HVR2 valves whose heaters are powered by a second, high insulation mains transformer.
All in all, a novel set.

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Posted : 29/04/2014 11:42 pm
Doz
 Doz
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All in all, a novel set.

All in all, a Philips set!

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 8:29 am
Brian Cuff
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Has anyone got pictures of the pilot lamp holders used in this TV? The ones in mine have been bodged and I guess that positioning of the lamps is very important as the radio scale is edge lit so the lamps must be exactly under the glass edge.

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Posted : 30/04/2014 11:14 am
Till Eulenspiegel
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Hi Brian,
Evidently your set is related to the pre-war model 2405, it's a set which there is very little information available. What would be intereting to find out is if the pre-war Philips set had flyback EHT. We do know that the German E1 TV set had flyback EHT.
A picture of the Philips 2405. One of a large range of sets for 1939/40.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 11:52 am
Brian Cuff
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That looks exactly like the 563A from 1948, doesn't it. I must say that the build quality of the set is excellent but there will be rather a lot of wire replacement necessary due to rotten rubber insulation.
I quickly checked the large electrolytics for ESR and they all read O/C so that's quite a bit of work to do as there are eight specimens. At least they're the type with "lids" so I don't need to cut the cans.

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Posted : 30/04/2014 2:16 pm
Jac Janssen
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The 2405 looks a bit more like a 383A (= more or less a 563 without radio) to me.
Part of the circuitry is quite similar to that used in the pre-war models, and the deflection coil has the same typical iron rings.

I think that the 2405 was basically the same set as the 2407, the only difference is table-model vs console.
The 2407 definitely had a mains-derived EHT,

Jac
P.M. very nice set, the 563A !

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:13 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Hi Jac,
I'd certainly would like to see along with many other vintage TV enthusiasts the circuit diagrams of the 2405 and 2407 receivers. I'd imagine the valves are side contat types, EL3, ECH3 etc. What we do know is that the 2405 employed the Mullard/Philips EE50 secondary emission valves in the IF amplifiers.
Yes, I believe the set had mains EHT.

Another really interesting pre-war Philips TV set is the TEL61, a projection set. Possibly imported from Holland?

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:23 pm
Brian Cuff
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The 463A is the version of the 563A without the radio. The service info states that only the scale, support and tuning indicator are omitted for the 463A but I find that hard to believe - why leave the radio tuning mechanism, variable cap. etc. in situ as it is not used tor TV sound?
I have a couple of EE50s if anyone has a 2405!

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Posted : 30/04/2014 5:26 pm
Cathovisor
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Something tells me - but I could easily be wrong - that pre-war, Telefunken held the patents on flyback EHT; hence its appearance in the Einheits-Empfaenger. Which was also the first set to use a square tube! Pye and Telefunken had a link-up before the war and IIRC one of Telefunken's engineers ended up working for Pye after the war. Telefunken's marvellous TO1000 and TO1001 pickups were sold by Pye pre-war.

I have a couple of EE50s if anyone has a 2405!

Angling for a swap there, Brian?! :qq1

Going slightly OT, the mention of pre-war projection sets has often left me wondering what tubes were used prior to the ubiquitous MW6-2? Baird had a projection set in the catalogues pre-war (the T19), I think there was a projection HMV as well as the aforementioned Philips TEL61.

The T19 was clearly intended for use in a large room or hall as Bush saw fit to put their most powerful radio chassis in the set - the PB55, with its push-pull PENB4 output stage.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:29 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Not sure who held the patents for flyback EHT although I believe it is attributed to non other than Alan Blumlein of EMI. Interesting to note that the RCA 630 TV of 1946 had flyback EHT.
The E1 was possibly the first TV set to employ a reinforced faceplate CRT.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:40 pm
Cathovisor
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The energy recovery line timebase was invented by Blumlein before the war. I don't know without some research whether he also proposed it as a source of EHT. If you don't do energy recovery then I suspect that making EHT from the timebase would be difficult and/or inefficient.

Indeed it was (patent no. GB400976 IIRC?): somewhere else we've discussed what the purpose of the UR1C is in the pre-war Baird T18/20/21 timebase chassis - it does look as though it is doing energy recovery of a kind. I suspect that putting 'Alan Dower Blumlein' into the EPO databse would involve a lot of reading afterwards!

Not sure who held the patents for flyback EHT although I believe it is attributed to non other than Alan Blumlein of EMI.

It is in this letter here:
http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2012/05/letters.cfm

I think this one has been covered elsewhere a long time ago...
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11592

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:48 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Hi Jeffery,
You beat me to it. The flyback EHT patent. Let's hear it for a truly great electronic genius! Alan Alumlein. I believe energy recovery in the line timebase output stage was his.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 5:49 pm
Brian Cuff
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If Blumlien did invent EHT from flyback, why wasn't it used in any of the EMI TV sets which were released before WWII? He did patent the energy recovery system but for use in the broadcast equipment e.g. cameras. Standard TVs seem to have been used as control room monitors and the rack mounted monitors uses a 7kV mains powered voltage doubler for EHT (see Black Book Section 10).
So did he ever patent EHT generation? Perhaps for the EHT for the Emitron camera tube!
I would like to think that he did patent it but I do have my doubts as to whether it was a practical system - or it would have been used!

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Posted : 30/04/2014 6:19 pm
Brian Cuff
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I've just read the 2006 thread over on the other forum and most of what I said here was covered then! Sorry guys.

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Posted : 30/04/2014 6:24 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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The line output stage of an EMI studio monitor.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 6:25 pm
Jac Janssen
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Hi Jac,
I'd certainly would like to see along with many other vintage TV enthusiasts the circuit diagrams of the 2405 and 2407 receivers. I'd imagine the valves are side contat types, EL3, ECH3 etc. What we do know is that the 2405 employed the Mullard/Philips EE50 secondary emission valves in the IF amplifiers.
Yes, I believe the set had mains EHT.

Another really interesting pre-war Philips TV set is the TEL61, a projection set. Possibly imported from Holland?

Till Eulenspiegel.

In "Philips Technisch Tijdschrift", published as Philips Technical Review in the UK, one or more some photos of the interior of a 2405/2407 can be found (I believe it was in a 1939 issue).
As soon as I have my LDP600WS sorted out (with which I am not making much progress...), I will try to scan the photos in that article.
I certainly would like to have the documentation of these sets. In the 1980's I asked the Philips Company Archives if they have anything on these sets (you could order photocopies at the time), but they told me that they have nothing. I might have an entrance there and try via him to ask again.

Jac

 
Posted : 30/04/2014 6:38 pm
Brian Cuff
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I've just discovered that the chassis used in the 563A is identical to that used in the 663A which is a console. I got hold of one of these a couple of years ago but didn't recognise the 563A chassis because the 663A is split into the two parts - RF and PSU/TBC. The cabinet of the 663A was full of woodworm but it has been treated so I might get it polished - I have stripped the old finish off and have replaced the Ogee type plinth which had been eaten away. So now, I have 2 reasons to get on with my present projects!

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Posted : 02/05/2014 6:39 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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And I still have Jon's Philips 563A to finish off. Evidently Radiofil members can purchase black capacitors which are much better for our requirements than those yellow hi-viz things.

http://www.radiofil.com

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 02/05/2014 6:52 pm
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