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[Closed] Philips 663A

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Brian Cuff
(@briancuff)
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Hi all - I've bought yet another TV! Most of you probably saw it on ebay looking very sad for itself. Well - it is sad. The woodworm larvae have (are having) a field day with flight holes on virtually every surface. The cabinet is sound but I will need to treat it PDQ. Treating it properly requires the guts to be removed so I did so. Philips have struck again with knobs on all four faces of the console set. The first thing was the removal of said knobs - not easy, but Plus-gas and a soldering iron got them off which surprised me as the grub screws were very rusty. One thing I will say about the set, it is possible to pull both chassis out and tilt them up to get at the underside so field service access was relatively easy. I removed both chassis and the condition is quite good with no real bodging and all the original electrolytics are there so I'll enjoy restoring it.
The dial liiked to be good but when I put a light behind it, it showed that there was degredation of the black masking paint which caused a speckled appearance - not very nice. I found that a fine black marker pen would "bloop" the speckles but I needed a photographic type light-box in order to find them all. Not having any translucent perspex to make one, I had to improvise - I used my ipad! Load the paint program and use a blank canvas as the lightbox. It worked very well and the dial is much better now.
I have downloaded the manufacturers info from thevalvepage (thanks Jon) but it refers to the 563A service info for a technical description which I need. Has anyone got a copy/scan? The other problem with the service info. is that there is no details of the interconnects between the chassis. There are 3 octal sockets on the PSU/TB chassis which mate with the radio chassis but no indication on the schematic where the circuits are intercepted. Can anyone help here?
I/m not going to do any more to this set until the JSF and the Cossor 54 are finished but I need to get on with woodworm extermination!

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Posted : 09/09/2012 7:49 pm
TVJON74
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Hi Brian,
I have got one of thoses sets too.
No worm on mine but speaker and vent cloth not very good and some of the veneer has fallen off around the side controls.
Your right there is no mention of where the 3 plugs and sockets are in the circuit!
Word of warning the CRT is only held in by a clamp on the neck and the rubber screen mask, I understand its possible for the tube to fall out if the clamp comes loose. :-o
I took mine out for safety!

Jon

Jon
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Posted : 09/09/2012 9:16 pm
Duke Nukem
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Hi Brian,

I think I have the manual for the 563A. I must admit I hadn't paid attention and assumed the 363/663 manual was pretty much the same beastie as the 563A. I shall go investigate.

I really like the 663A and wish I could find the space for one.

TTFN,
Jon

 
Posted : 09/09/2012 10:14 pm
Brian Cuff
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Thanks for the warning re the CRT falling out, Jon1! The vendor mentioned this and I asked him to remove it before the courier picked it up and having received it, I can see exactly what you mean.

I'm not sure what the 563A looks like Jon2. I assume that it's a console model so it may mention the interconnects. I would be greatful for a scan :thumbl: . If there is no mention of the sockets, I will trace them ad do a spreadsheet which you could publish on your excellent website.

Any help appreciated.

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Posted : 09/09/2012 11:51 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Hi Brian,
I'm hoping to get this 583A finished off this week along with a whole load of jobs including that ASO thing on Wednesday.
The 583 and 663 are developments of the pre-war model 2405. No pre-war models are known to exist. My guess is that it would have employed side contact base valves in some circuit positions and possibly an early version of the EF50. I did read somewhere that the secondary emission EE50 was also employed in the 2405 and it's derivitives. The line output valve would have been the EL50.
Back to the 583/663. That EBL31 valve is the video amplifier. Note the early (1946) application of the EB91.
EHT comes from the line flyback. The pulse present at the anode of the EL38 supplies a doubler arrangement employing two HVR2 EHT rectifiers. Delivers something like 5 to 6 KV for the MW22/7 CRT final anode.
A picture of the pre-war 2405 and the post-war 383A.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 10/09/2012 12:30 am
Duke Nukem
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Hi Brian,

PM'd a link to some scans of the 563A manual. Will get around to putting a PDF on the site in due course.

As for the 563A, I first saw one in a Wireless World edition that covered the 1947 Radiolympia. With its daft radio tuning scale sticking out the top (like the 463A radio) I though it was so bonkers that I had to keep an eye open for one.

However a number of sets shown in '47 didn't actually enter full production until 1948.

As far as I can see, like the 663 the 563 also only has its screen held at the front by the rubber mask. Not a good plan !

TTFN,
Jon

 
Posted : 10/09/2012 12:48 am
Till Eulenspiegel
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The Philips 583A. Note the radio dial.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 10/09/2012 1:05 am
Anonymous
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Drool drool... I don't like it, I love it. <3

 
Posted : 10/09/2012 10:02 am
Duke Nukem
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Yep, a fantastic little set, but boy is it heavy. I swear if you got a lump of lead the same size as this set that lump would be lighter !

I dread to think how much heavier the 663A must be.

TTFN,
Jon

 
Posted : 10/09/2012 1:30 pm
Brian Cuff
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I may be able to get a 583A - all I have to do is to convince the present owner that he doesn't want it any more! I'll get to work on him.

Thanks for the pics and info Till. They all help me to do the necessary to get the set! You mention the EE50 secondary emission pentode - I bought a couple of EFP60s on ebay the other day. These are also secondary emission pentode. I bought them because I fancied having them but if anyone has a set which needs them I will surrender them - I don't know if they're hard to find or what.

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Posted : 10/09/2012 10:18 pm
Brian Cuff
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The derivation of the heater voltage for the rectifiers in the EHT doubler is interesting. I thought initially that it was a separate mains transformer with twin high insulation 4V windings but it 'aint! The primary of the transformer is fed from the 6.3V heater winding on the TV only mains transformer. I suppose that this makes the insulation problems easier but It's typically Philips!

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Posted : 10/09/2012 10:25 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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I may be able to get a 583A - all I have to do is to convince the present owner that he doesn't want it any more! I'll get to work on him.

Thanks for the pics and info Till. They all help me to do the necessary to get the set! You mention the EE50 secondary emission pentode - I bought a couple of EFP60s on ebay the other day. These are also secondary emission pentode. I bought them because I fancied having them but if anyone has a set which needs them I will surrender them - I don't know if they're hard to find or what.

Hi Brian,
I saw those EFP60s on eBay, did make a bid for them. I never knew this valve type existed, evidently a post-war development. Not sure if it is a later version of the EE50.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_efp60.html
The EE50 was developed by Philips in 1938. The example shown on the radiomuseum website has the normal pins. Early versions had the hooked pins like the early EF50 used in the Pye 12C 915 TV chassis.
Info for the EF50: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ee50.html Shows a picture of the early EF50 with the hooked pins.
Info for the EE50: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ee50.html

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 11/09/2012 12:08 am
Till Eulenspiegel
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Info for the EF50: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef50.html

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 11/09/2012 2:11 am
Brian Cuff
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A quick update on this tele.
I have scraped all the original finish off the cabinet using a cabinet scraper - what else? :=D - as the woodworm was so bad that I needed to really saturate it with high-power killer, the type used in lofts, which is not at all kind to cellulose finishes. The finish came off reasonably well, revealing quite good mahogany graining under the very dark stain. There is a veneered curved section along the front top corner which, typically, had come unglued for part of its length so that needed gluing back. Here's where a length of 50mmx50mmx3mm alloy angle and some long sash-cramps came in handy. Some thinned PVA was coaxed under the veneer and the angle place such that on edge pressed the wayward down in place and the cramps held it in position for a few hours. The same treatment on the lower edge of the curve and all is now well, only some small bits of missing veneer to be replaced later. I then saturated the cabinet with the "stuff" and wrapped it up in a couple of very large poly bags and it will stay like that, under cover, until I get down to a bit more work on it - like filling about 2,318 (give or take a few thousand) flight holes of varying sizes, what fun :| .

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Posted : 13/10/2012 2:07 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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The Philips 563A is the table version. I'm gonna tough out this set this weekend. But just how do you pull the chassis out of the cabinet? The side control shafts prevent the chassis coming out completely.
The ion trap magnet is not needed for the MW22-7, it was fitted to prevent the tube falling out.
Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 17/11/2012 12:11 am
ianj
 ianj
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What a handsome tv set,a similar looking prewar set was offered by Philips as well.

 
Posted : 17/11/2012 10:09 am
AnalogueAddict
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But just how do you pull the chassis out of the cabinet? The side control shafts prevent the chassis coming out completely.

Indeed, I would be interested to learn how the chassis is removed. I had exactly the same problem with a 1938 Philips 753A motor-tuned set, where the side controls stopped withdrawal of the chassis. It certainly wasn't obvious where the shafts could be disconected. If instructions are not in the TV service data, it might be worth looking at the 753A service sheet (may be a Broadcaster sheet), but I don't have it. Fortunately for me the access from the underside panel removable panel was sufficient on the 753A (I was also deterred from further investigating removal of the chassis by the consequent need to mess about with bowden cables connecting the wavechange and tuning mechanisms of the moveable tuning scale!).

John.

 
Posted : 17/11/2012 12:46 pm
Brian Cuff
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With the 663A, the side controls are all on extension spindles which can be accessed from under the chassis. I removed the extension spindles complete with their knobs to make sliding it out easier. The exception was the W/C switch which has the indicator operating lever attached to the spindle so the knob itself has to be removed. Can you access the screws via the bottom service hatch - if there is one? Isn't it always Philips which present the most mechanical problems?

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Posted : 17/11/2012 1:29 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Sure enough there are spindle couplers. Loosen them off and remove them, then the chassis will come out.
Hopefully. :w00t:
Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 17/11/2012 4:20 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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The chassis is out of the cabinet at last. Those spindle couplers came off easily. Check out those dodgy looking Visconol capacitors. This was one of the first sets to derive it's EHT from the line flyback pulse. It would interesting to speculate if the pre-war model 2405 also had flyback EHT. I think it had. It's worth bearing in mind A.D. Blumlein is acredited for the line flyback EHT concept.
The German E1 TV receiver also had flyback EHT: http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold/ar ... ken/e1.htm
The CRT had integral implosion protection in the form of a moulded rimband.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 17/11/2012 10:53 pm
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