1973 26" Grundig 5011 "Super-Color"

Very stylish set, I particularly liked the large illuminated channel numbers on the touch pads. Don't suppose the manufacturer circuit diagram was still inside? 

Hi John, its long gone, however luckily in my data library I have quite a lot of data for Grundig and I located a cct sheet for the 5011 there instead. 👍 

Nice to hear Grundig made some stylish sets in the 1970s-80s.

Quite amazingly the 5011 still has its tuner twiddler stick behind the flap. I really like their access to the convergence controls. Top of the speak grill there is a hidden slider, push it to the right and the panel slight pops forward. This allows you to pull the panel upwards and out with the speaker attached. The speaker has locating spades for connectivity, very cool idea. Now you can access the convergence controls. It has a tone control, so I suspect it sounds rather nice too.

Posted by: @richardfrommarple

Nice to hear Grundig made some stylish sets in the 1970s-80s

For a 1973/4 TV, I'm super impressed with this "Super-Color", when compared with the UK competition of the time

@crustytv
Most of the UK sets were built to lowest selling/rental price, any up market look eg Dynatron was in the cabinet, the chassis was virtually standard with perhaps a few tweaks.

The main UK market was rental and the big rental companies drove costs down, I don’t know if Continental Europe had the same problem, the customers seem prepared to pay a higher price for their TV’s.

I only fixed a couple of Grundig Super Colours but they seemed to work well.

Posted by: @crustytv

... It has a tone control, so I suspect it sounds rather nice too.

Grundig TV's of the 70's were very well regarded in terms of build and picture quality and were head and shoulders above many UK offerings.

In the mid-70's two semiconductor line output topologies emerged, BJT and thyristor. When thyristor designs first emerged there was a big issue with them failing. Most of the problem was due to poor soldered joints on the commutating transformer which is responsible for rapidly turning off the thyristors at the correct time. Advice from Grundig Technical was to remove all old solder around the transformer pins and replace with a good quality 60/40. This has stirred up some memories. 😵 

I might still have a full service manual if you need one... will need to look.

Rich

Posted by: @marconi_mpt4

 Most of the problem was due to poor soldered joints on the commutating transformer which is responsible for rapidly turning off the thyristors at the correct time. Advice from Grundig Technical was to remove all old solder around the transformer pins and replace with a good quality 60/40.

Thanks for the heads-up Rich, most folk just go "Ughhh Thyristor line output stage" at least you've added some flesh to the bones and some tips from Grundig.

Posted by: @marconi_mpt4

I might still have a full service manual if you need one... will need to look.

If you have the full manual that would be nice to consult, all I've got is the cct and set-up page. 👍 

@crustytv

Yay. Have found the service manual that covers 5010-6010 and 5011-6011 and the supplement for 5011....!!

In the inside pocket are two diagrams for 6010 TD/GB and 5011 GB

Bonus find is the schematic for LEDCO Pye solid state CDA board together with set up instructions. happy to scan that also for technical library.

Rich

Excellent news 👍

In your own time Rich, there's no rush I know all too well how time-consuming and tedious scanning manuals can be.

I never liked working on the 70,s Grundig sets. The ones with the BT119/BT120 thyristor line output stage were a nightmare. Does your set work Chris? Malc.

Posted by: @malcscott

Does your set work Chris?

No idea Malc, not plugged it in yet, and I've no intention of doing so until I have given it a thorough check over. One thing I've noticed is the mains lead has been spliced together in the middle with electrical tape, quality bodge! I did give it a cursory glance over, all appears to be there, it'll have to wait its turn as I'm currently bogged down with the G22K511 project. Think it's been fairly well-loved as its very clean and the tuning twiddle stick is still there, which is most unusual as they're nearly always missing.

If you want thyristors aplenty, might I recommend the SABA S6735? Count the darned things, they're everywhere!

Reading the Grundig brochure I noticed one of the service engineers was using a specific diagnostic tool.

It appears to plug into the rear of the master circuit board, but there's no mention of it. A hunt on the net revealed a little info, it was The "Grundig Diagnostic-Adapter", there's not much more info than that. Looking at the device it would appear to give the engineer a "Go-No-Go" for the various parts of the TVs circuits.

A quick and optimistic look abroad, I managed to find a nice boxed unit (see above) complete with manual and schematic in Holland, so bought it.

Anyway, when it arrives I think I'm going to need some help with translating as my German is non-existent. Meanwhile, whilst I wait, looking at the front of the device, I used Google to translate. However, some of it appears to make no sense 3, 5,6  & 12 well to me anyway.  Also image stage 9 "image stage" is that not video or is that Chroma/decoder? I suspect all will be revealed when I have the manual.

Red=German Black= English translation

1. Anlaufspannung Starting voltage
2. netzgleichricter Line Rectifier
3. ansteuerung Control ???
4. Hochvoltspg High Voltage
5. kommut Commut ?????
6. NF Teil NF Part ???
7. Video Teil Video part ???
8. Z Ablenkung Z Deflection
9. bildstufe image stage
10. niedervoltspg Low Voltage
11. oszillator Oscillator
12. Reserve Reserve ???
13. B ablenkspg B Deflection
14. ablenenkstrom Deflection current

@crustytv It looks like one those adaptors for sale on German ebay. Buy it now 20 euros.

@crustytv

You might also like a copy of the Grundig Service Appreciation Course, covering models 1510, 5010, 5011, 5012, 6011, 6022, 2210, 2222, 2252R.

Contains circuit descriptions and diagrams illustrating how the thyristor horizontal output stage is supposed to work.

I will add it to the scan list 😀 

Rich

Uploaded the Grundig Service Appreciation Course notes for their thyristor horizontal output stage chassis to the data library. Dated January 1976.

Reading through the theory, I had forgotten just how complicated this chassis was but the aim was to substantially reduce power consumption of sets equipped with first generation  110° delta gun CRT type A66-140x etc.

Service manual to follow.

Rich

Sorry Rich, nothing uploaded, looks like it either failed or there is a problem with the upload service. I did a test and a file uploaded for me. If the uploaded succeeds, you should get a large notification box stating so. If it fails, you will be left with a red X under the file you're trying to upload.

I quite liked this model as you say some engineers didn't like Thyristor line output stages and true sometimes they could be a trial, you only had to miss a (say) dry joint and the repair wouldn't last long.

I had a later Grundig but still with a very similar main panel that came in for repair having "gone up in smoke". It had suffered a fairly major burn up around the high wattage resistors, the PCB had a fairly large hole in it with multiple tracks burned away. So I told the customer it was a write off. The customer asked me to put this in writing as he intended to claim from their house insurance. As soon as he told me who he was insured with I knew we would have an argument with them as that firm always tried to get out of claims or reduce the amount of the claim somehow.

Sure enough they sent an assessor who took the set away to their TV repair department ( a famous dividend giving company) they repaired the set and returned it, the customer wasn't happy with this as he was scared of a repeat performance. About a month later he came in and bought a new set telling me that the Grundig had flashed inside and gone dead after a week. He had contacted the C@-@P insurance but they refused to do anything as they said as the set had worked after the "repair". That had satisfied the insurance claim and any further failure was coincidence....

I asked him to bring the set in as I was curious to see what the "repair" to the PCB looked like. unfortunately he had taken it to the tip on the way to me to buy a new set as his journey took him past the gate. There was no going back for it as in those days, you took your rubbish to the pit and threw it in! no row of skips or elf and safety in those days! 

When you think about it it is frightening to think how many old sets went into landfill for decades before recycling started! 

Anyway Chris, give it a good check over for dry joints and make sure your smoke alarm is working!