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CTV [Sticky] 1974 20" Ferguson 3C03; Thorn 4000 ; Super Rare

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crustytv
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For ages none then two come along, I've now bought another Thorn 4000, this time a Ferguson 3C03, a hellishly expensive month but needs must. The 3C03 will first serve to offer up its Vertical deflection board, which is believed to have originally been from the HMV to get this Fergy working.  It may end up having to serve as a parts TV, but if I can, I will try to get it going as well, at some point in the future.

There is some fair damage to the top of the cabinet caused by chemical interaction with the coiled wired remote control lead. Yes it has a wired remote!!!!

This has resulted in a fairly deep circular channel being gouged into the plastic cabinet. Other than that and being filthy, it is a marvellous example of a TV, I've bet very few if any of you have ever seen.

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3c03 2
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3c03 6
3c03 top

More photo added to its blog page https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1974-20-ferguson-3c03/

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Posted : 04/11/2021 10:31 am
Stevesje71, turretslug, PYE625 and 12 people reacted
Katie Bush
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Ah, that's the telly with the "Cat Shelf" on the front! I saw one in a shop in York, once, where it was to be repaired, or failing that, it was a very similar set.  The chap who ran the shop called it the cat shelf model on account of the owner's cat sitting on the ledge in front of the CRT, chasing footballers across the screen, or race cars, horses, birds, or anything that took Puskin's attention!

 
Posted : 04/11/2021 8:18 pm
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PYE625
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Posted by: @crustytv

I've now bought the 3C03 as well...

I had a gut feeling that you might, and a wise move too if I may say. 👍 

This is excellent news because not only has the set found a good home, you will be able to establish the working condition of both the set's now.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 06/11/2021 4:59 pm
crustytv
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The 3C03 should be here tomorrow, hopefully I can then get started on the HMV.

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Posted : 07/11/2021 4:48 pm
crustytv
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Midnight and the 3C03 (4000) has just been delivered by Shiply. 😲 Collected and delivered in the same day. For now it's sitting in the storeroom, more tomorrow. Time for bed.😴

20211108 235652

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Posted : 09/11/2021 12:01 am
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crustytv
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It's a new dawn, it's a new day .......

As I mentioned last night, the TV arrived at midnight, so first thing this morning it was given a thorough clean before being moved into the museum.
 
I managed to reduce the damage to the top caused by a chemical reaction to the wired remote control cable. This was achieved with a fine scalpel, laid flat, to remove the side ridges. For the most part this has been successful. Now what I'm just left with is the outline of where the cable lay, which is brighter to the yellowing of the rest of the top.
 
I have a neat solution to this.
 
I have a Radofin Teletext set-top box that suffered the same fading. This was normalised by accident in the workshop, having being placed in front of the window. The very bright sun, that streams in for most of the day, cured the cabinet's colour difference. The 3C03 will be given the chance to have the same natural treatment. I'll report back.
 
Overall It's cleaned up very well, and I'm super pleased. Almost a shame to steal the Vertical deflection board, but the HMV flagship 4K get precedence. Once the HMV 4K is up and running, I will temporarily return the deflection board to the 3C03 and get that one running. When it is working, the deflection board will be returned to the HMV.
 
Ultimately I would dearly like to get the 3C03 up as well, the chances of finding a spare vertical deflection are very slim, more than the quest I had to find an SS G6 i.f panel. Maybe the only option open is to fabricate one or get someone to do one for me. There are not a lot of components on there, but it's easier said than done.

 
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20211111 085015

Edit:

Forgot to document the wired remote

20211109 155930
 

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Posted : 09/11/2021 9:05 am
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PYE625
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It looks very nice and very modern for it's time.

A plastic polish may help reduce the marks on top, but all in good time.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 09/11/2021 10:21 am
Lloyd
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It’s come up quite nicely! Looks very well packed in the cabinet, and the whole set looks tiny once it’s on your bench!

if you decide the cabinet damage is too much you could always get some sticky backed plastic to cover it!! The stuff sold for vinyl wrapping cars works quite well!

 Regards 

Lloyd 

 
Posted : 09/11/2021 11:04 am
crustytv
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Posted by: @lloyd

Looks very well packed in the cabinet,

Apparently one of its failings, the 110 delta toroidal scan coils among other things generating a lot of heat from the vertical deflection. It has to supply 6A p-p output and consumes 40W in doing so. Not such a problem on the huge HMV 2726 cabinet, but on the 3C03 very much so. The tripler on the 4K failed not so much due to it being inferior, but the silly place it was located, heat being what killed it. I'm proposing to fit a fan to try and address that on both sets

Posted by: @lloyd

and the whole set looks tiny once it’s on your bench!

Yes, I'm glad I took the decision this time last tear to go for a very big bench. Even the HMV 2726 console, G6 and Thorn 2000 console, go on there with ease. Lifting them up though is an entirely different matter.

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Posted : 09/11/2021 11:12 am
irob2345
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For the vertical module, most of the thick film units and the two output transistors can be replaced by a single LM1875.The vertical OP is just a power op amp with current feedback.

You can simulate the circuit in LTSpice to make sure it works the way it should before you build the hardware. And it's quite cheap to get prototype PCBs made in China these days. You just need the PCB cad software and someone with the skills.

 
Posted : 09/11/2021 11:16 am
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crustytv
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Hi Ian, don't suppose any of your compatriots on the Oz forums have a spare vertical deflection PCB tucked away?

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Posted : 09/11/2021 11:20 am
Cathovisor
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Posted by: @crustytv

Apparently one of its failings, the 110 delta toroidal scan coils among other things generating a lot of heat from the vertical deflection. It has to supply 6A p-p output and consumes 40W in doing so. Not such a problem on the huge HMV cabinet. The tripler on the 4K failed not so much due to it being inferior, but the silly place it was located, heat being what killed it. I'm proposing to fit a fan to try and address that on both sets.

Bit OTT, but a Peltier heat pump would at least be silent...

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/hvac-fans-thermal-management/electronics-heating-cooling-components/peltier-modules/

 
Posted : 09/11/2021 11:30 am
Jayceebee
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Posted by: @irob2345

For the vertical module, most of the thick film units and the two output transistors can be replaced by a single LM1875.The vertical OP is just a power op amp with current feedback.

I had the idea of possibly using the circuit from the TX10 Mk1 as some models were fitted with CRTs having toroidal field scan coils. I couldn’t see an easy way to implement N/S correct which is required on the 4000, the circuit used a TDA1044 field osc/output IC driving a couple of power transistors.

John.

 
Posted : 09/11/2021 1:08 pm
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irob2345
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@jayceebee Well I know the LM1875 will do the job because I've used it to replace whole vertical amps when the transistors were unobtainable. My late mum's Pye T30C comes to mind, it ran for 10 years with the LM1875, and would probably still be running had it not been in that flooded garage. Made a horrible mess of the cabinet, which just turned to mush.

Actually, the T29 and T30 (we're talking Aussie Pyes here, nothing like any you've seen) used a very simple circuit to derive the NS correction, with discrete components. It worked well. I must dig up the circuit.

The T30C had a Toshiba 110 degree wide neck self-converging CRT that required no NS correction. Not so for the earlier models with the Toshiba RIS tubes.

 
Posted : 10/11/2021 9:41 am
irob2345
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OK! I found it and scanned it.

T29 ScanR3

Q503 to Q508 and all associated parts can be replaced by the LM1875, although with this CRT you'd lose top and bottom vertical convergence adjustments. Q509, L501 and the parts around it provide the NS pincushion. The other 3 transistors to the right are for the side pincushion, using the Philips-style East-West Modulator circuit. But that's not part of the 4000 vertical module.

Pretty simple really. L501 is a centre-tapped adjustable pot core about 22mm diameter. The adjustment tilted the correction. Might have to experiment with that one.

With this level of simplicity you can see why these sets were rock-solid reliable. Most common fault was the connectors.

 
Posted : 10/11/2021 11:35 am
irob2345
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After I'd shut down for the night I realised that the book that had the Pye T29 would also have the AWA 4KA.

Sure enough, it did.

I've attached a scan of the appropriate page.

4KA Scan

There is enough information to link the Pye circuit into the 4000. It looks eminently do-able.

If you can source the connectors the rest should be easy.

 
Posted : 10/11/2021 1:00 pm
Anonymous
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I have access to PCB design software and can easily get prototype PCBs made up.  If somebody can sort out a schematic I'd be happy to help.

Martin

 
Posted : 11/11/2021 10:13 am
crustytv
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Hi Martin,

Here is the circuit for the 4000 series vertical deflection. The PCB layout and the two thick film units that are also on the master PCB. Including a photo of the actual PCB.

vertdef1
vertdef2
vertdef3
vertdef4
vertdef5

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Posted : 11/11/2021 4:45 pm
crustytv
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Some internals of the 3C03, for your perusal. There would initially appear to be fewer repairs to this, than the HMV. The focus unit looks to have had a problem with the 5kV lead-out, it's taped up for insulation and some sheathing added to the chassis. Hope the unit is not duff! The focus unit is dated 51st week of 1976, replacement or original? As these TVs came out in 73/74 I would hazard a guess at replacement.

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Posted : 14/11/2021 10:19 am
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PYE625
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Seeing close-up's of some of the components, it has a continental look to it... ERO capacitors for one thing and the good quality resistors.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 14/11/2021 11:34 am
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