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Forum 141

CTV 1972 SABA T2705-F; Hybrid Continental

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crustytv
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Hi fellow Vratters, as you all know It's Retrotech weekend, and although I didn't attend, in a small way, I did get involved. Let me introduce you to the latest TV added to my collection, but before I do that, perhaps a little backstory on how the TV and my, paths aligned.

The story starts way back in Sept 2021 a chap called David attended Retrotech, whilst there he was on the lookout for service data for a particular TV that he had recently acquired. David was told to seek out the VRAT forum, as I might be able to help. David did just that, joined VRAT and posted a request in the service data section.

I responded that evening that I had the service data for the TV, that it was spread across 21-pages of the 1975 R&TVS book. However, I explained that I had also seen the manufacturer's service manual on eBay and if I were him, I would buy that. I also stated my red and blue guns had failed, leaving me with a decidedly "green raster of envy" as the other half of my early colour TV collection are continentals. That's pretty much where it ended, and I forgot all about it.

Two years later I happened to be looking on eBay when I spotted this new TV appear and with "Make an offer". I thought, lovely, but it was in Scotland, very large, and I no longer had my SUV, just my electric smart with 100-mile range. I noticed on the listing the vendor stated they would be at RetroTech so could take the TV there. At this point, like a Muppet, I had still not joined the dots!

I contacted the vendor made an offer and enquired if he was travelling down to Retrotech, maybe we could meet as there is a junction just 10-miles from me off the A1(M). My offer was accepted, and the vendor said no problem with a meet. We exchanged contact details and spoke on the telephone later in the week. It was during this phone call, all the dots were joined. Long story short David is the vendor, he thought his VRAT account must have expired as he'd not posted in over 2-years. When he listed the TV, he had hoped I would see it and perhaps purchase it, which of course I did.

This Saturday, rather than meeting at the junction, I had offered an invitation to visit and relax mid-point in his long journey. That he could tour the Museum and my collection, have a comfort break and some refreshments, not a lot of arm twisting required. David made the 10-mile detour to the Crusty abode, dropped the TV off, and spent a couple of hours looking around the museum. We discussed all manner of TV related subjects (David is Ex Trade) over refreshments and snacks. David left to make the final leg of his mammoth trek to Retrotech. A thoroughly pleasant afternoon and a real pleasure to meet David and share our common interests.

OK, so that's the backstory.

As the title of the thread states, this TV is a 26" 1972 SABA T2705-F Hybrid, a continental imported into the UK. It weighs an absolute tonne and is built like a battleship, as you'd expect from the superb West German manufacturer. David has restored it, so there's little for me to do, except he did mention the decoder needs a setup, so I'll enjoy doing that, once I've translated the German service manual into English.

Also, it came with a TeleHiFi box (more on that in a separate thread in due course) which must have sat on the top for years as it had eaten the finish. As a result, David sent the cabinet away to be restored, hence it looks like new, just a little wear to the front where the user controls are. This I shall leave as honest wear, representing its 48-years of age.

This is a magnificent addition to my continental collection, I wonder if my UK collection holds the most continentals, I've now ten of them. For now some pics and when I get around to it, you can follow the decoder alignment on the TV's repair blog.

I spent the afternoon playing musical TVs, it was a bit like those puzzle we had as kids, you know the handheld ones where you had to shuffle the little squares around. Finally, I managed to get it where I wanted it, I've also discovered I no longer have the ability to lift big sets, unfortunately I have a lot of big sets..... Ooops!

As you'd expect, at Radios-TV there is a SABA brochure and the TV is represented in there, see first pic. The rest show the TV in the museum and when I first peered inside to see the chassis and all those lovely valves.

SabaT2705
20230521 152214
sb4
sb5
sb1
sb2

p.s.

One curious and funky thing, this SABA has, or actually hasn't got, something you would normally expect. There isn't a "Blue Lateral" control on the neck. So how do you set blue lateral? I know, as I have the manual, but I've never seen it done this way before! Only the clever Germans .....

Sorry waffled again, but you must be used to me by now. 😎 

p.s.

As you can see, there is wonderful access to all the boards as the two chassis come right out of the set on long leads.

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 7:53 pm
Lloyd, slidertogrid, Jayceebee and 2 people reacted
PYE625
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Looks like it is well made for sure. I like the chassis layout.

What's the empty B7G valve base for on the IF/tuner board Chris?

(Dead centre of last pic).

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft. Andrew.

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 8:19 pm
WayneD
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Very nice! 1975 is quite late for a hybrid set.

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 8:34 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @pye625

What's the empty B7G valve base for on the IF/tuner board Chris?

(Dead centre of last pic).

Well spotted, that had me wondering too when I first clapped eyes on it. At first I thought, "hello, valve missing", but its not listed as one of the valve sockets. I checked the manual, but as I mentioned above it's in German. The German word associated with that socket has a character I do not understand, it looks like a capital "B" followed by a lowercase "b"  making "MeBbuchse".

Thank heavens for translate apps on the phone, I just point and it auto translates to "Measuring Socket". So no missing valve, but quite what you measure there and why, and why a B7G socket, I don't know yet, more reading and translating to do.

20230521 213851
20230521 213423

Edit:

Interesting using English to German for "measuring socket", I get "Messbuchse". A double "ss" instead of that curious unconnected capital "B". I suspect Mike @cathovisor will know what significance that German character has

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 8:37 pm
slidertogrid
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Wow! I never thought I would see another one of those Chris! I bought loads in 1979 / 80 from a local dealer/ The Sylvania tube didn't last very long and they were selling them off when they either needed a tube or were returned ex-rental. I got quite a few with re-gun tubes. I see yours has a Solus fitted. If the PL519 went low or someone fitted a PL509 it would mess up the beam limiter called something like the Strahstrom ? something like that... Replacing the valve and resetting the (tiny) control would often make the word of difference.  I remember the sound output valve was a small thing and ran very hot! The multi standard switching on the back of the tuner bank put a lot of pressure on the latching and buttons would often fail to stay put. removing the spring and fixing the switch on to UHF permanently cured that! 

They were a lot easier to fix than the next model, a Thyristor line stage solid state set the "Telecommander" complete with full ultrasonic remote control with motorised controls and On Off switch! 

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 9:03 pm
Jayceebee
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Looks a well thought out layout for easy servicing. What's the valve line up on the decoder/signal stages, I'm presuming it's colour difference drive? I can see it appears to have a PCL805 for the frame and the normal PL509/519 and PY500 for line, those top cap/valve retainers look way over engineered. As for the blue lateral don't forget the 4000 had also had electronic control of all static convergence adjustments.

John.

 
Posted : 21/05/2023 9:09 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @jayceebee

What's the valve line up on the decoder/signal stages, I'm presuming its colour difference drive?

Yes, it is colour difference. The decoder is all solid state. The valves are PCL805, PCF802, PY500A, PL509, PC92, EF80, EF183, PL802, PC92, PL95.

In total 11 valves (including picture tube A66 120X), 33 transistors, 70 diodes and 3 IC's

Posted by: @jayceebee

As for the blue lateral don't forget the 4000 had also had electronic control of all static convergence adjustments.

Oh yes, how could I have forgotten that, I put it down to my advancing years 😉 . Both TVs also designed by a German and released around the same time, fitting they sit next to each other in the museum.

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 7:12 am
crustytv
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Posted by: @wayned

1975 is quite late for a hybrid set.

That's because It's not 1975 and I'm a dozy twonk, If I had a brain I'd be dangerous.

The TV is from 1972, evidence...

Service manual has a long code ending in xxxxxxxxx180272.

The TV is in the 1972 SABA brochure https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/saba/

There is a Radio Museum entry https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/saba_schauinsland_t_2705_color_f.html

Finally, a Getty image from 1972, to be precise from 9th February 1972: At the launch of SABA Colour Television in the United Kingdom, Justin Ane demonstrates. This date also ties in nicely with the date code I found on the service manual, Feb 72.

Forum 142

p.s.

I forgot to mention the T2705-F has a wired remote control socket at the back, but I don't have the remote. You can also see the coiled up remote on the T2705 behind the young lady in the getty image.

 

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:09 am
WayneD reacted
WayneD
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@crustytv blimey, I've actually learned something! 😱

When was the last hybrid set produced?

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:21 am
crustytv
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Hmmm, I'm sure that's been asked and answered on VRAT before, but I've no idea where the thread is, I would need to do some digging.

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:36 am
Cathovisor
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@crustytv the character is ß, which in German is a double-s. The provision of a strategically-placed empty valve holder with various test points brought up to it goes back to their high-end radios in the late 50s.

The remote is the same as the all solid-state SABA we had: the only TV I have ever encountered where the user could turn off the ACC... 

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:46 am
crustytv reacted
crustytv
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Thanks Mike, I knew you would have the answer to one, if not both of those. 👍 

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:53 am
Cathovisor
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@slidertogrid Tell me about it - we had the console version of that behemoth! Fourteen thyristors, I think.

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 11:54 am
Cathovisor
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Looking at the manual I see it has an extension speaker socket too. 

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 12:52 pm
slidertogrid
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Posted by: @cathovisor

@slidertogrid Tell me about it - we had the console version of that behemoth! Fourteen thyristors, I think.

I bet they were expensive! I saw a few at the place I worked as a school leaver and fitted a few tubes to them in my time. If the set developed a over current fault there would be a noise as the on off switch motor fired up and switched the set off. We had a set at work that would intermittently do this. One of the engineers had a bit of a battle but eventually proclaimed it cured. I sneaked by his workshop with a remote handset and by bouncing it off a mirror switched the set off. There was a lot of cursing from the workshop! I did this two or three times and then got caught! I was chased around the workshop with the degaussing wand! I hate to think what would have happened if he had caught up with me!    

 

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 4:15 pm
Cathovisor
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@slidertogrid It was this intermittent shutdown - tied to a flat and knackered A67-200X - that saw our (secondhand, BTW) SABA scrapped and turned into a wine rack. I still have the customer control unit with all its motorised pots...

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 4:20 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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Is that a replacement CRT? The date code indicates it's UK made and sold as a Solus.

SABA 14183 sb4

 Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 8:26 pm
slidertogrid
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Yes. Solus were a parts supplier that sold a lot of valves and tubes. I think some of the Tubes were re gunned. a lot of the Sabas I had were fitted with Mullard Colourex re gun tubes. The original Sylvania tubes didn't last that long and didn't usually respond to reactivation.

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 9:02 pm
Cathovisor
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@slidertogrid Not surprising considering those SABA sets were ones that ran the heaters at a low temperature until you turned the set on...

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 9:18 pm
Till Eulenspiegel
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The tube was made or rebuilt by Mullard. Date code tells us it was made in Blackburn.

Till Eulenspiegel.

 
Posted : 22/05/2023 9:31 pm
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