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[Closed] Bought an old PYE TV, absolute beginner  

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Charlieboy45
(@charlieboy45)
New V-Ratter New Member
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Hi all, I recently bought this old pye 26” tv for £15 on Facebook. I had planned on testing it and it’s not running pretty much at all. Sometimes the light glows red but it’s not doing Anything, the remote is also corroded on the battery terminal.

I was planning on removing the broken internals and fitting a modern screen, with a convex glass panel in front, so that when I move into my new flat I can have period decorations with modern functionality. Hopefully somebody can point me in the direction of a guide or something of the likes, on how to take the insides out safely, as I know that older TVs have many charged parts and don’t want to risk getting injured.

thanks, Charlie

Mod Note:

As this TV is on e-bay and selling for £300 I guess we can close this!

Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2020 4:38 pm
Katie Bush
(@katie-bush)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

Hi Charlie,

Please don't gut the telly, this is a forum where we make things live again, as the makers intended.

Gutted out and "upcycled" only serves to devalue most things, and when the novelty wears off, a once proud set usually ends up as landfill. I'm sure there are plenty here who can work through the faults, but if you're an absolute beginner, this may well not be the best set to start on - because of the potential risks awaiting the unwary.

Posted : 27/10/2020 7:51 pm
ntscuser liked
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

I'm going to have a stab at identifying this. It's sporting a six button tuner, with ultrasonic remote and teletext, I reckon its a 1978 PYE CT483 which should be the Philips G11 chassis. It won't take much to get this going but if you've zero experience and little interest in learning electronics, you'll have an uphill battle. Also you're not going to get your hi-def picture experience it seems you're mostly after looks rather than the authentic experience.

As Marion rightly points out, you're really asking in the wrong place for help to do what you propose. Everyone here has dedicated themselves to preserving vintage electronics rather than gutting them for flat-screen transplants.

As for safety, you've already thrown caution to the wind by just plugging it in and thus far you got away without a bang! Power supply and other caps may well be charged, it depends on how far it got before the set tripped. Unlikely the CRT will have got EHT but best left alone. Its simple to find out but as you've no experience I'm uncomfortable taking this any further and being responsible for you potentially getting a belt from the set.

I respect it's your TV set to do as you please, that said I wouldn't expect much input from folk here in assisting in what you intend. You're far better off looking for some upcycling group on Facebook where folk do what you intend. Many do what you do and also turn them into fish tanks, Retro cocktail bars and pet beds. I'm certain they'll have the type of advice you're looking for.

Crusty's Collection: Read the repair blogsCrustys Youtube Channel: If you want to follow me on Youtube, please consider subscribingVrat FaceBook: Follow us

Posted : 27/10/2020 9:06 pm
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

No it's not advisable for you to proceed. CRT's (the picture tube) are dangerous if not handled correctly and the risk of implosion and serious injury is very real. Better to sell this to a collector who can restore it and as already suggested go to one of the 'up-cyclers' that make us cringe at what they do to old electronic equipment. Even if you did get it working, you can't use it without more equipment since it was designed for the old analogue TV system which was switched off in 2012.

Posted : 27/10/2020 9:19 pm
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

I think your best option would be to sell this set on, and keep an eye out on eBay for one similar that has already had the innards removed, they do turn up occasionally, in fact I saw a Dynatron empty cabinet on there not that long ago.

I remember my Nan had a nice Dynatron tv (essentially a PYE/Philips!) in a fancy cabinet, and when it died back in the late 90’s she replaced it with a cheapo Bush silver Nicam thing, but had the Dynatron removed from its cabinet and the bush inserted in its place! Bit of a shame! 
These vintage sets can have modern functionality, pretty much all that’s needed (when the set is working) is an RF modulator, and a video source, which can come from a HDMI to AV converter, and you can then plug in just about any modern source. I use this very setup to run my vintage sets from the workshop PC, which is a Dell Tablet PC. Obviously it’s not going to be HD or 4K! But the result is pretty good. Maybe you could find a friendly local TV tech to take a look at it for you? 
oh, just another daft thought, these modern flat screen smart TV’s are pretty thin, maybe you could just stand one in the space between the doors and the front of the tv, saving you having to take anything apart!

 Regards

Lloyd

Posted : 27/10/2020 9:48 pm
Jayceebee
(@jayceebee)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

This could be quite a rare set I believe, there can't be many ultrasonic teletext sets left out there. It would be a shame to rip out the original chassis as the set looks to be in superb condition but it's your set and your choice. Where are you located? perhaps if and when the Covid restrictions are relaxed someone from here may be able to take a look at it.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that the chassis could be at half mains potential, if the set is operated with the back cover removed then an isolation transformer should always be used.

John.

Posted : 27/10/2020 11:09 pm
Charlieboy45
(@charlieboy45)
New V-Ratter New Member

Hi all, maybe I hadn’t worded my initial message correctly, but I don’t think such a judgemental response was necessary from some.

i am not planning to immediately destroy the units authenticity, I was going to look for a local person to me (Lancashire) who could try to diagnose the fault and repair it. If not repairable I wanted the screen replaced. Not with a modern flat screen, but a modern crt to give it the most longetivity it could achieve.

as a collector of classic cars and archive vintage clothing, I completely understand the need for preservation, and didn’t realise this was anything special as both my grandparents had similar tv’s that they only got rid of 10 or so years ago. I have repaired an Atari and 2 NES’s, and Currently use a 12” crt To play Atari 2600, and with a HDMI to rf converter I play xbox and watch older movies so I’m not a complete novice to old electronics. I mean, I wake up every morning to my late grandfathers 70’s hitachi radio alarm clock.

i would love the authentic experience of such a large colour crt, so if somebody could point me in the direction of diagnosing the problem, or a local place that could work on it, I would be appreciative.

the transplant option, was a last chance thought rather than abandoning the unit. I’m sorry for the way I worded the message, I was in a rush before work and should have taken my time

Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2020 11:26 pm
crustytv liked
irob2345
(@irob2345)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Charlie, Ian here from Belrose in Australia!

Don't mention putting new guts in old TVs around here LOL!

I assume the UK Pye/Philips TV with its G11 chassis is similar to the Philips K11 we saw here. Except the Australian version is NOT live chassis! Those with local knowledge will confirm or deny I'm sure. If it is the same then I'm in a position to help you. But you may be better locating someone who is familiar with them.

The K11 is capable of truly beautiful pictures and so your TV is well worth restoring. The colourimetry of the Philips CRT is more accurate than any modern TV, only approached by high end OLED displays.

I have a Kriesler TV that is a derivation of the Philips K11 design and still has the original CRT. They are a complex TV and some of the faults can be tricky to track down. Most parts are still available though.

My Kriesler appears in the 1970's episode of the Australian version of Back In Time for Dinner, showing Gough Whitlam's famous "Well may we say God Save the Queen" 1975 speech on the steps of the old Parliament House..

For those who don't know about the Queen's famous coup d'etat, here is a current affairs TV doco on the subject, made on the 10th anniversary:

About 3 mins 10 seconds in.

Posted : 28/10/2020 1:39 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin
Posted by: @charlieboy45

Hi all, maybe I hadn’t worded my initial message correctly, but I don’t think such a judgemental response was necessary from some.

Hi Charlie, I don't feel you received a judgemental response from any of us, our comments were in response to the limited info your supplied. Maybe my post was straight to the point but you have to look at it from my perspective. You said yourself (see quote below) if you re-read your first post, it hardly gives the impression you were here after repairing the TV.

Posted by: @charlieboy45

I was planning on removing the broken internals and fitting a modern screen, with a convex glass panel in front, so that when I move into my new flat I can have period decorations with modern functionality.

I and others also stated that we respected the TV was yours to do with as you please but that if you were intent on replacing it with a modern panel, this forum was probably not the best place for such advice. That's hardly judgemental either. Believe me there are many other such forums and groups where stronger views and words would have been expressed.

The reason I stated I was not prepared to offer any advice about poking around in the TV, was not out of malice but concern for your well being. You equally did not state in your opening post your level of experience. Despite now saying you've repaired a couple of games consoles and use a CRT portable, I still feel you may not fully appreciate the dangers that lie within an old TV when attempting a repair.

In this day and age of injury claims and as owner of this site, if I'm seen to encourage an inexperienced person to open up a vintage TV set and they end up getting a nasty belt or worse electrocuting themselves, it leaves me wide open. I'm not prepared to take a risk with your life or end up in court for you or any other novice. That's why I said I was not comfortable and I'm still not. If you read our rules I openly state this right at the start. This is a public forum I and the membership have a duty to make folk aware of the danger.

Remote assistance on TV repair is all well and good and although possible, it is still fraught with danger for the novice. You're far better seeking local help if any exists in your area. There's so much more to a Vintage TV than the items you mention you've already repaired. As stated by John, the G11 is at half mains potential and offers a serious risk of electrocution if not approached correctly. Then you've got 25kV (25,000 Volts) on the final anode of the CRT, whilst this won't kill you it is extremely unpleasant if you come into contact with and will sustain a nasty deep penetrating burn. If you did come into contact, your resulting violent reaction to it is where the danger lies. Be aware, TV's are a whole step up in repair level to an Atari or SNES.

OK so you never intended to fit an LCD etc, even if you try to fit another modern CRT the dangers still exist with that and to what end? Its likely only going to offer SCART and composite input connectivity & OSD but with a whole raft of fitting challenges, it will always look what it is, awful from the original. A pointless exercise in my opinion when the original internals are eminently repairable. The main thing that could be a show stopper for the original TV, is if the CRT was low emission (weak colours).

Finally to offer some encouragement should you seek someone to repair it, the G11 chassis is capable of giving outstanding results. Have a look at the results obtained from one I repaired a few years back. It too had teletext and I fed it pages from my IMOGen teletext generator.

The pictures below and in the repair blog, show how as Ian states the picture is superb. The full repair blog is here https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1978-roberts-rct-262t/

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Crusty's Collection: Read the repair blogsCrustys Youtube Channel: If you want to follow me on Youtube, please consider subscribingVrat FaceBook: Follow us

Posted : 28/10/2020 7:20 am
Mikey66
(@mikey66)
Active V-Ratter Registered

@charlieboy45 Hi Charlie

Subject to Covid restrictions & distance, I am quite happy to take a look at this set for you in a repair capacity.

I cannot help with any conversions though.

Best regards

Mike

Posted : 28/10/2020 10:03 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin
Posted by: @irob2345

I assume the UK Pye/Philips TV with its G11 chassis is similar to the Philips K11 we saw here.

I'm not sure they are the same, the K11 chassis looks different to the G11, I guess there might be some similarities. Perhaps Rich (ex Philips) can elaborate.

k11
g11

Crusty's Collection: Read the repair blogsCrustys Youtube Channel: If you want to follow me on Youtube, please consider subscribingVrat FaceBook: Follow us

Posted : 28/10/2020 1:53 pm
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
Illustrious V-Ratter Registered

Goodness me... I had one of those but mine was the teletext version.

It was our first Teletext set.

Posted : 28/10/2020 5:01 pm
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator
Posted by: @crustytv
Posted by: @irob2345

I assume the UK Pye/Philips TV with its G11 chassis is similar to the Philips K11 we saw here.

I'm not sure they are the same, the K11 chassis looks different to the G11, I guess there might be some similarities. Perhaps Rich (ex Philips) can elaborate.

k11
g11

They most certainly are NOT the same!! The G11 was designed and made in Great Britain (hence the 'G') and was (I think) the last UK set made in the Philips factory at Croydon. The K11 was made in Europe (Krefelt)? and a totally different beast. I saw a few when at Philips when they had been brought over from the continent and found not to work in the UK.....

Posted : 28/10/2020 7:57 pm
ntscuser and crustytv liked
irob2345
(@irob2345)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Interesting. Given its use of those distinctive Philips modules, it looks like the G11 may have been a "repackaged and improved" K11 in the way the Kriesler 59-03 was. The 59-03 also bears little resemblance to the K11 at first sight but there are many copy-and-paste aspects in the design.

Also interesting that Philips, although they owned Pye in Australia, left them alone to make their own TVs up until the 80s. The Pye T29, T30, T34 and T30C (teletext) TVs had zero Philips influence in their design and used Toshiba tubes, much to the chagrin of Philips. They were much simpler, cheaper to make and more reliable so Philips just had them compete at the bottom end of the price range. My late mum had a T30C that ran for 25 years with only a couple of tripler replacements. Might still be going today if we hadn't lost it in a garage flood.

Posted : 28/10/2020 11:26 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

@irob2345

It was in the second half of the 70’s that Pye started to use the Philips CTV chassis in their sets. Pye still had most of their own designs up to then. Only earlier Philips CTV chassis was the  infamous CT200 that had a Philips version as far as I can recall before then around 1973/74
Philips audio systems started to appear with Pye labels around the middle 70’s.

Frank

Posted : 29/10/2020 7:39 am
irob2345
(@irob2345)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Frank

I knew some of the engineers at Pye Marrickville (Sydney). Apparently in about 1973 they visited Pye UK, looked at what was on offer and very quickly decided they could do better. They knew about the soon-to-be-released Toshiba 110 degree RIS tubes at that time.

The T29 was rushed to production. The 3rd PCB that was to hold the LOPT, regulator pass, bridge diodes, degaussing parts etc. was not yet designed so the centre metal pan chassis had point-to-point wiring and tag strips as per the prototype when they pushed the button on production. Didn't seem to affect the reliability though, biggest issue with the T29 was the board to wire connectors.

Posted : 29/10/2020 8:28 am
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

@irob2345

The Pye 725 90 degree delta chassis (1973/74)  I found a decent design, a few stock faults but didn’t give too much trouble. IF strip suffered from dry joints but an easy to fix chassis.

The similar but 110 degree delta 731 was not the same, the CRT being 110 degree required more scanning power but it wasn’t really up to it.

The 725/731 was perhaps your colleagues saw, it was a half mains chassis design which may have put them off, on the other hand if it was the small screen CT200 713 chassis I can understand there feelings, we returned all ours to Pye as not fit for purpose.

Frank

Posted : 29/10/2020 5:59 pm
irob2345
(@irob2345)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Things were quite different here at Pye.

By the late '60s Pye were selling B&W TVs with a 4 years free service warranty, using primarily their own techs. Because the sale price was about the same as the rest of the industry their TVs (all solid state by the end of '68) had to be very reliable. They were, and became more so because of the close feedback.

Prior to the colour release, all service techs were given a 22" T29 in kit form. Building them was a good training exercise and the competition between techs was intense...

Posted : 29/10/2020 7:42 pm
EmleyMoor
(@emleymoor)
Trusted V-Ratter Registered

Hmmm... this is one of those teletext sets that advocated putting ITV on "2" and BBC2 on "3" - as did some early Thorn teletext sets. Why it was initially done on my grandad's first Luxor I have no idea. After the arrival of Channel 4 in Chesterfield, we put this foible right. His next Luxor arrived more sensibly tuned anyway.

"Yes, a bit of wet string may get you a good TV signal here on four channels, but you'll have to dry it out to get Channel 5!"

Posted : 01/11/2020 7:49 pm
Jayceebee
(@jayceebee)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

The channel ID's were pre-programmed into the TAC, an SAA5040 on the Mullard teletext decoder. The original type used the SAA5040A which as you say had ITV programmed to 2, BBC2 to 3 and VCR to 6. Later decoders and Thorn's own version which appeared in later TX9/10 chassis used a SAA5040B which had prog 2 as BBC2, prog 3 as ITV and VCR on 8. Later Thorn decoders used an SAA5040C which had no program ID info.

John.

Posted : 01/11/2020 10:15 pm
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