Featured
Latest
Oct 1988 20" Granad...
 
Share:
Notifications
Clear all

Forum 135

CTV Oct 1988 20" Granada C51EZ4 (Salora 20L30) with Teletext

39 Posts
8 Users
32 Reactions
120 Views
malcscott
(@malcscott)
Posts: 1580
Prominent Member Registered
 

Try and resolder all of the feed through wire links and replace the xtal.

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 8:32 am
crustytv reacted
slidertogrid
(@slidertogrid)
Posts: 1118
Prominent Member Registered
 

@crustytv Hi Chris . Sorry I made a mistake with that posting. I completely missed the previous posts. I think I must have returned to the computer and posted without checking for new posts or refreshing the page, I don't know what happened to be honest... Anyway yes, in light of reading your post about the text board I agree the fault is obviously on there.  Referring to experience on other chassis the K30 or maybe K35 suffered from IC holder problems on the Text board causing ( I think) sync faults. I remember we used to remove the socket and solder the IC direct into the board. Only one IC on the board was socketed the others were already soldered direct.  As I said I have no experience with this Salora chassis I can only draw on experience of similar problems on the sets or chassis I do have experience with.  Please amend or delete my erroneous post as you see fit. ( sorry about that!)

Rich. 

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 8:37 am
crustytv reacted
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @malcscott

Try and resolder all of the feed through wire links

OK, will do, on both ends, Text module and main board. 👍 

Posted by: @malcscott

..... and replace the xtal.

By that, I guess you mean the crystal on the Teletext module? Easier said than done, despite having many spare Teletext modules for other manufacturers, these all use the SAA chipset and as such a 6000,000 kHz crystal. This Salora uses a TPU2732 chip and as such the crystal is 17734,47 kHz. Again, despite having a good stock of standard crystals, I do not have the frequency. Only source I can find thus far is Italy, £24 deliver to UK.

I'm loathed to spend that much on the off-chance it might be the crystal. I wonder If I could just remove it and then inject that from my sig gen.

Hmmmm I'll try all the resoldering first!

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 8:56 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

Posted by: @slidertogrid

experience on other chassis the K30 or maybe K35 suffered from IC holder problems on the Text board causing ( I think) sync faults. I remember we used to remove the socket and solder the IC direct into the board.

That sounds like another option worthy of a try. Considering this TV was poorly stored for many years, perhaps the sockets are suspect, every chip on this module is socketed. Then there is the curious DRAM chip with four legs, not connected!!!!

As we're on a new page, I will link to my previous fault description, as folk may miss it by not checking back a page.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/community/postid/120780/

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 8:57 am
Jayceebee
(@jayceebee)
Posts: 2036
Prominent Member Registered
 

@crustytv Crystal in stock here, I’ll get a couple across to you next week.

John.

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:09 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

Hold fire on that, I just remembered my LSG-17 has the ability to test crystals, I frequently do this when I suspect the decoder crystal on my TVs.

20240706 101853

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:20 am
Cathovisor reacted
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
Posts: 6467
Famed Member Registered
 

One thing I remember about the family Salora: in mixed text/picture mode, rather than knock the background picture back and keep the text the same amplitude, instead it increased the drive to the guns from the text decoder, making the letters stand out much more. One to watch out for.

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:27 am
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
Posts: 6467
Famed Member Registered
 

Posted by: @crustytv

Hold fire on that, I just remembered my LSG-17 has the ability to test crystals, I frequently do this when I suspect the decoder crystal on my TVs.

-- attachment is not available --

That's a nice signal generator, Chris! We had a visit from a rep from Leader when we were looking at new waveform monitors that could work with HDR signals. Apparently all their kit is still made in Japan and all service manuals are available from them.

 

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:30 am
crustytv reacted
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

Saved you a wasted journey John, as I suspected, nothing wrong with the Teletext crystal, it oscillates bang on the money at 17.7351. I must be lucky as in the 10-years I've been dabbling with TVs only once have I encountered a duff crystal.

20240706 104152
SDS00005

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:46 am
Michael Dranfield
(@michael-dranfield)
Posts: 186
Reputable Member Registered
 

Might be a obvious answer but as we're dealing with a digital circuit supply voltage and clean Ness is of the utter importance, a 5 volt supply dropping to 4.8v will cause all sorts of unexplained faults. 

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 9:57 am
yampy187
(@yampy187)
Posts: 37
Trusted Member Registered
 

Posted by: @crustytv

Well, I'm speechless, I would not have suspected the Teletext board, that shows my lack of experience with text sets. Cheers chaps.

-- attachment is not available --
-- attachment is not available --

Jan, I wonder if the fact you were having trouble getting the TV to switch into text was the indicator of something failing.

-- attachment is not available --

 

@crustytv Now we are getting somewhere! The picture looks better than when I had it!

 

Quite odd that IC has been left like that with legs poking out. I wonder if the previous owner had a bash at trying to mend a text fault? 

As I said via PM, I think the guy whose house it came from, May have been Ex Granada. Everything in the house had Granada MK plugs on!

 

Jan

 

 

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 11:37 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

I've desoldered all the sockets and placed the chips directly into the board, including the DRAM full leg compliment. Having a break from the fumes before soldering them in

20240706 151849

During this brief pause, I decided to address the fablon, the original was darker but had suffered badly over the years in the poor storage. Jan I believe used what he had to hand, it was a lot lighter and to me did not fully complement the TV. Thankfully, I had a rather nice, warm looking piece in stock left from when I recovered the GEC 2219H. The difference between the two clearly shown in photo #1.

fab1
fab2
fab3
fab4
fab5
fab6

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 2:54 pm
yampy187
(@yampy187)
Posts: 37
Trusted Member Registered
 

That looks a million times better Chris! A much closer match to the original. 

Its really hard to find the 80s looking Fablon now. Only place I have managed to find a perfect match is from Temu. They call it "Grapefruit Yellow" 

I got some to re-do my Granada. 

 

IMG 3886

Jan

 

 

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 4:17 pm
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
Posts: 1957
Prominent Member Registered
 

I’m probably barking up the wrong tree here, but the fault when the teletext board is in looks just like when I had a dodgy cable for connecting my old camcorder to my telly, in that the earth connection on the video lead had broken. Just thinking out loud, could it be a duff earth connection in the teletext board, and maybe when it installed the video signal has to go through the board, and because of the missing earth it’s just not able to sync to the picture?

like I say, just thinking out loud, and probably totally wrong in every way possible!!

Or maybe a missing supply voltage to the teletext board, which is stopping whatever chip deals with the video from working, and it’s just a bit of the picture leaking through a dead chip…

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 5:13 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

Removing the sockets from the Teletext board and, or including the 4 missing legs of the DRAM into cct, has cured the fault. The remote also works perfectly on text.

20240706 184216
20240706 184248

That's it folks, into the showroom it goes.

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 06/07/2024 5:48 pm
jcdaze, Nuvistor, Jayceebee and 3 people reacted
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Posts: 11993
Vrat Founder Admin
Topic starter
 

To conclude this thread, the final couple of showroom shots.

Now I just need to figure where to place it. I need to get my finger out and get the 1979 Salora 1F4 running, they can sit together then. The Salora advertising on top is for the same period but their stereo Teletext offering, hmmm now that would be a nice find. 🙄 

20240707 055603
20240707 061636
20240707 060154

Salora Brochure

CrustyTV Television Shop: Take a virtual tour
Crusty's TV/VCR Collection: View my collection
Crustys Youtube Channel: My stuff
Crusty's 70s Lounge: Take a peek

 
Posted : 07/07/2024 5:11 am
Jayceebee, yampy187 and Lloyd reacted
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
Posts: 1957
Prominent Member Registered
 

Very nice! Time for another display room extension? 😀 

 
Posted : 07/07/2024 7:31 am
crustytv reacted
yampy187
(@yampy187)
Posts: 37
Trusted Member Registered
 

@crustytv That looks spot on now!

 
Posted : 07/07/2024 9:11 am
crustytv reacted
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
Posts: 6467
Famed Member Registered
 

Posted by: @crustytv

The Salora advertising on top is for the same period but their stereo Teletext offering,

My parents' 24K77 was stereo inasmuch as if you fed it from a stereo or NICAM VCR via the SCART it was stereo. There was also an option to jettison the fitted loudspeakers and retro-fit an optional pair of bass reflex enclosures in the space. A stereo decoder was also an option too, I seem to recall.

 
Posted : 07/07/2024 9:15 pm
Page 2 / 2
Share: