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Philips G8 tuner?

 
Pieter H
(@pieter-h)
New V-Ratter Registered
Posts: 16

Hi all,

I'm trying to write the history of the Tuner modules developed and used by Philips in its TV's. I recently uploaded the third part of my story, on transistor-based tuners, which overlaps with the introduction of colour TV.
https://www.maximus-randd.com/tv-tuner-history-pt3.html

Unfortunately  especially the tuners used in the British sets remain very vague; in most cases I don't have more than a service code and the external pinning. Circuit diagrams or at least the key components used, 12nc (the Philips code of the product) and production sites are mostly unknown. See the tables inside the story.

However, I would love to have more clarity on the British side of the story, to start with more details on the tuners used in the G8 and G9 CTV sets. Most helpful would be pictures of the tuners from these sets with their production labels, showing (hopefully) 12nc, type, production factory code and time code.

I'm sure there are still some G8 and G9 sets around in this community, and/or some spare tuners. Looking forward to any feedback.

Kind regards, Pieter

 

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Topic starter Posted : 28/04/2018 10:57 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin
Posts: 10844

Hi Pieter, 

I have a G8 in my collection it can be viewed here.

In addition to that set I have some panels with the tuner modules and also a few different G8/9 push paddle tuners, also a service manual. (see all photos below). Obviously I can take more detailed photos if its all suitable.

I also have G6 ( 1st Gen colour dual standard hybrid) and G11 ( In Roberts guise) sets, If you click on Television on the top blue 'nav-bar' menu. Look under 'Television' | 'Colour TV collection' and you will see years listed. Under the years you will find my virtual museum of sets.

Various User Tuner Control Buttons Modules

g8 1
g8 2
g9

G8 boards, below early IF module and later generation combined signals board.

g8 a
g8 b
g8 c
g8 d
g8 e
g8 f

Gary ( colourmaster) on the forum has the extremely rare G9 in his collection and the thread can be found here

Edit: Ooops forgot to include the panels with tuner modules when I first posted, now added them above.

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Posted : 28/04/2018 11:16 am
Cathovisor
(@cathovisor)
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Posts: 5479

I'd have thought all the tuners were the standard UHF-only Philips/Mullard ELC1043? The only time I recall seeing the dual-band ELC2000 was in Philips VCRs.

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Posted : 28/04/2018 4:52 pm
Nuvistor
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Posts: 4158

The ones I saw were the 1043/?, was the suffix 05? These were in Pye sets not Philips though.

I don’t remember other Mullard tuners. 

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Posted : 28/04/2018 5:15 pm
Pieter H
(@pieter-h)
New V-Ratter Registered
Posts: 16

@Chris,

thanks a lot, these are exactly the type of pictures that help.  The frustrating part is that the label only shows the 12nc - new to me! showing UK origin - and Dunfirmline (BY) production code, not the type name. In my naming this is the UK-version of the U6, more details still missing.

@Cathovisor and Nuvistor, the ELC1043 was - as far as I can see - only used in third party sets, Thorn, Decca and Pye (which was being integrated into the Philips group at this time). I haven't found it used in Philips CTV chassis, although it might have been in B&W ones.

My overview of the tuners used says:

G6 : AT7672 UV1 with mechanical push-button pre-set

G8: U6 as shown above

G9: unknown; have called it myself the U302. Otherwise nothing known but likely a version of the UD1/12ET5632

G11: idem

Only after the G11, when sets were much less locally optimized and adhered to the global platform designs, did things become more transparent:

K12: U321

K35: U324

Etcetera. So the G8, G9 and G11 remain the biggest question marks.

Regards, Pieter

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Topic starter Posted : 28/04/2018 6:09 pm
Jayceebee
(@jayceebee)
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Posts: 1632

Don't forget that the G6 came in two types, dual and single standard the latter equipped with a 4 button UHF only version probably derived from the 320 monochrome chassis. As for the G9 weren't the signals stages very similar to the later G8?

I was aware that Philips didn't use the ELC1043 series in the G8, did they know something the other manufacturers didn't? ? 

John.

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Posted : 28/04/2018 9:49 pm
colourmaster
(@colourmaster)
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Posts: 404

Hi  Pieter

the G9 used the same signals board as the later G8 so their tuners were the same  I'm pretty sure that the G11 used the U321 type .

Regards.

Gary.

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Posted : 29/04/2018 8:47 am
Pieter H
(@pieter-h)
New V-Ratter Registered
Posts: 16

Hi Gary,

thanks, that's very useful information. And yes, you're absolutely right, the G11 used the U321. I could verify that from other pictures. Allows me to eliminate at least one unidentified "mystery tuner".

@John,

I don't think Philips deliberately supplied lower quality tuners to third parties. As I wrote, I think there were two "streams" within the organization: one that demanded highest performance tuners for Philips TVs, which were then likely more expensive. At the same time the Elcoma organization wanted to sell more to third parties, which demanded cheaper tuners to push out the incumbent solutions. I think the ELC1043 was in principle not a bad tuner, the life time issues (dry joints, especially on the connections between PCB and frame) came up later. But it's true that the ELC1043 was not the best tuner developed by Philips, and from then one they again made only the same tuners for internal and external use.

Regards, Pieter

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Topic starter Posted : 01/05/2018 5:08 pm
Jayceebee
(@jayceebee)
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Hi Pieter, the last comment was probably a little unfair of me and I'm sure it wasn't done deliberately by Philips/Mullard. Yes, it did seem unreliable and the Thorn equivalent the SC4, appeared to have more gain and be very reliable but only came on the scene several years after the introduction of the ELC. Also we will probably never know the percentage produced that lasted a sets full working life, we only ever saw the faulty ones of course.

I always admired the pictures produced by Philips, at that time they were always a cut above most manufacturers. A lot of constructional projects in Practical Television magazine often specified the use of Philips tuners and IF modules, a set I built in the 80's from a magazine design used the U321 tuner and IF modules from the G11. A number other articles for DX-TV reception projects often specified the use of selectivity modules from the G8 also.

John.

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Posted : 01/05/2018 8:41 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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I found the reliability of the ELC1043 poor compared to other tuners, I always had a spare on the van. I tried resoldering the case etc but I never had much luck. I sent them for repair to MCES in Manchester, they always came back working well, quick turn around and gave no further trouble. I don’t remember changing the tuner in a set more than once. Cheaper than buying new or have Pye fix them.

 

When they were working they seemed fine and I had no performance problems with them. There were some new third party replacements available, straight swap but the looked slightly different, I think made in Germany. I bought a few but found MCES better for myself.

 

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Posted : 01/05/2018 9:27 pm
Jayceebee
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Posted by: Nuvistor

 There were some new third party replacements available, straight swap but the looked slightly different, I think made in Germany.

 

That sound like the NSF tuner that we were also supplied with sometimes, I remember the pins came out through a blue plastic bar on the underside.

Cathoviser mentioned the ELC2000 earlier, this was used in the export versions of the Thorn 4000 chassis. Unusually it was mounted in a socket, not soldered meaning it could be changed in seconds. A lot of these sets were returned or not even sent to South Africa and put into the UK rental market.

John.

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Posted : 01/05/2018 9:50 pm