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Sony Triniton KV-1330UB TV

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hitachitv
(@hitachitv)
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Hi All,

I decided to buy a second vintage TV to accompany my Hitachi one so I bought a Sony Triniton KV-1330UB TV.

It is very good condition with only a few minor marks here and there.

As I've seen the tuner dial tends to get stuck which is the case of my one.

The major issue currently I'm experiencing is that I do not seem to get the colour red but can change the hue and it turns from green to blue:

son1

From the images I've seen it was holding the colour red:

son2

Could it somehow of been damaged in transit?

Any advice or help is always appreciated - I understand I'm a novice currently but trying to improve my knowledge!

Thanks

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Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2020 1:24 pm
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hitachitv
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Can I also add that for some reason - there is only quiet audio coming out of the speakers!

However, when headphones are plugged into the audio jacks the sound is a fine level.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2020 2:24 pm
crustytv
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You like throwing yourself in the deep end then. ?

Personally It's a set I'm not at all familiar with but from anecdotal accounts, these sets are fairly complex using their own interpretation of the TFK PAL system to get over copyright. Also, they don't use the traditional shadow mask and use a number of special transistors that are hard to find substitutes for. Shame Tim (Studio263) no longer visits the forum as he's the Sony guru and would laugh at my ignorance of them.

As it worked before transit, it could well be something as simple as a popped wire or cracked trace. Best to have a look around the video drive board (with the set powered off of course) and see if anything is obvious.

In the meantime via this sites Servicing the Sets section you will find an interesting article you should read to familiarise yourself with how these sets operate. Direct link to the Sony article is here.

I think I've got the service data, according to that the set uses the same chassis as the 1310 for the set but as you're a new starter it will likely overwhelm you. I will therefore just post snippets of the decoder and video drive circuits so members can offer advice.

soncct1
soncct2
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Posted : 08/04/2020 2:32 pm
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hitachitv
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Posted by: @crustytv

You like throwing yourself in the deep end then. ?

Personally It's a set I'm not at all familiar with but from anecdotal accounts, these sets are fairly complex using their own interpretation of the TFK PAL system to get over copyright. Also, they don't use the traditional shadow mask and use a number of special transistors that are hard to find substitutes for. Shame Tim (Studio263) no longer visits the forum as he's the Sony guru and would laugh at my ignorance of them.

As it worked before transit, it could well be something as simple as a popped wire or cracked trace. Best to have a look around the video drive board (with the set powered off of course) and see if anything is obvious.

In the meantime via this sites Servicing the Sets section you will find an interesting article you should read to familiarise yourself with how these sets operate. Direct link to the Sony article is here.

I think I've got the service data, according to that the set uses the same chassis as the 1310 for the set but as you're a new starter it will likely overwhelm you. I will therefore just post snippets of the decoder and video drive circuits so members can offer advice.

soncct1
soncct2

Thanks for the response - I like I've picked an interesting set!

What seems curious is that when connected to a VHS player the colour appears fine and normal - but when plugged (using an adaptor) into HDMI that is when the red seems to be omitted despite using the same cable for both.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2020 3:18 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @hitachitv

What seems curious is that when connected to a VHS player the colour appears fine and normal

Ah, now that's a crucial piece of information you omitted from your first post.

Posted by: @hitachitv

but when plugged (using an adaptor) into HDMI that is when the red seems to be omitted

And another piece of info omitted from your first post, the use of an "HDMI adaptor".

As the set is producing red under normal circumstances via VHS player, you can eliminate any problem with the TV set, its working and producing correct colour representation as it should.

Therefore, I would suggest something in the adaptor is causing the problem, what that is I haven't the foggiest idea. I can't be certain but I think I've read elsewhere on the forum, other folk having issues with HDMI adaptors and vintage TV's.

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Posted : 08/04/2020 3:24 pm
Nuvistor
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Is the VHS player feeding the aerial socket or If it has one through a SCART socket? If it’s through the aerial then Chris is spot on.

I don’t know the set so that’s why I can remember if it as a SCART socket.

We had the chance of selling this series but decided against and waited for the Hitachi and Toshiba sets with the full PAL decoder.

I have been looking for information about using non PAL decoders with HDMI converters, seem to remember problems but couldn’t find it, perhaps many sets have problems not just  non PAL.

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Posted : 08/04/2020 3:50 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @nuvistor

I don’t know the set so that’s why I can remember if it as a SCART socket.

The Sony set is very early 70's, SCART was not anywhere on a TV until 1977.

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Posted : 08/04/2020 3:55 pm
Cathovisor
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@crustytv

And even then only in France - a fine bit of market protectionism there!

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Posted : 08/04/2020 4:24 pm
Nuvistor
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Posted by: @crustytv
Posted by: @nuvistor

I don’t know the set so that’s why I can remember if it as a SCART socket.

The Sony set is very early 70's, SCART was not anywhere on a TV until 1977.

1977, was it that late? The 70’s seem to have merged into one, thanks Chris. ? 

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Posted : 08/04/2020 4:26 pm
hitachitv
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Posted by: @crustytv
Posted by: @hitachitv

What seems curious is that when connected to a VHS player the colour appears fine and normal

Ah, now that's a crucial piece of information you omitted from your first post.

Posted by: @hitachitv

but when plugged (using an adaptor) into HDMI that is when the red seems to be omitted

And another piece of info omitted from your first post, the use of an "HDMI adaptor".

As the set is producing red under normal circumstances via VHS player, you can eliminate any problem with the TV set, its working and producing correct colour representation as it should.

Therefore, I would suggest something in the adaptor is causing the problem, what that is I haven't the foggiest idea. I can't be certain but I think I've read elsewhere on the forum, other folk having issues with HDMI adaptors and vintage TV's.

I actually only discovered that it was working on a VHS player only after posting the original post up!

I use the same adaptor for my Hitatchi TV with the colour being fine on it but maybe its something to do with the Sony being several years older.

Thanks

 

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Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2020 4:28 pm
Nuvistor
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A post over on UKVRRR by Studio263 states that his careful going through the circuit does show that this set is a full PAL D. Never the less it doesn’t like the signal from the HDMI converter.

 

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Posted : 08/04/2020 6:02 pm
Lloyd
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I think I had trouble with my 2 1330's when fed with a signal through a particular modulator, picture was fine on all other sets, but the Sony's showed incorrect colours (people with purple faces! Try saying that quickly after a few pints...), it might have been the output from my SD card player, which is one of those little Sumvision Cyclone somethingorothers. So it's probably just a substandard signal from the HDMI converter, and the Sony can't lock correctly to it, I don't know if there is some adjustment somewhere in the set to make it a bit less picky, or if it's just a feature of the design.

Regards,

Lloyd.

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Posted : 08/04/2020 6:25 pm
hitachitv
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Posted by: @lloyd

I think I had trouble with my 2 1330's when fed with a signal through a particular modulator, picture was fine on all other sets, but the Sony's showed incorrect colours (people with purple faces! Try saying that quickly after a few pints...), it might have been the output from my SD card player, which is one of those little Sumvision Cyclone somethingorothers. So it's probably just a substandard signal from the HDMI converter, and the Sony can't lock correctly to it, I don't know if there is some adjustment somewhere in the set to make it a bit less picky, or if it's just a feature of the design.

Regards,

Lloyd.

Thats really helpful information thank you - I guess I'll be just using a VHS player or Freeview! ? 

 

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Topic starter Posted : 08/04/2020 7:05 pm
hamid_1
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To avoid infringing existing patents, this early Sony TV uses a non-standard design of colour decoder. It isn't perfect, that's why there is a Hue control to compensate for errors. True PAL colour TVs don't have a hue or tint control because they don't need one - any phase errors are cancelled out automatically.

Having looked at your first photo, it seems you are using a standalone RF modulator with an HDMI media player and an HDMI to AV converter (not pictured). This setup displays incorrect colour.

In another photo, you have a Goodmans Freeview box with built-in modulator. You also said you have a VHS machine, presumably with built-in modulator (not pictured). You say that both of these produce correct colour. If that's true, then the problem must be either the standalone modulator, the HDMI converter or the HDMI media player, or some combination of the three. So it's a process of elimination.

Try connecting the Freeview box to the standalone modulator using an AV cable, then connect the standalone modulator to the TV. Does it work correctly? Then try connecting the AV out from your HDMI converter to the AV in of your VHS machine, basically using it as a modulator.

You could also try a different HDMI device with the converter, such as a satellite TV set-top box, DVD or blu-ray player. In the HDMI to AV converter settings, make sure it's set for PAL and not NTSC or SECAM. Make sure your HDMI device is set to PAL or 25fps, not 30.

If all else fails, obtain a different HDMI to AV converter or a media player that provides analogue composite video as well as (or instead of) HDMI, such as some Roku and Now TV boxes. The Raspberry Pi microcomputer provides analogue AV out as well as HDMI and can be turned into a very impressive streaming or offline media player.

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Posted : 09/04/2020 2:29 am
EmleyMoor
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Posted by: @hamid_1

True PAL colour TVs don't have a hue or tint control because they don't need one - any phase errors are cancelled out automatically.

This is, at least usually, a good point. As with any rule, however, it does have exceptions, which are not always easy to fathom out. Thorn 2000 chassis sets have a tint control, as did the only 4000 chassis set I ever saw. The control was also present on most of the Salora sets I ever handled. (Was there also one on some Tandbergs or have I imagined this?)

It is absolutely true that they are more likely to be found on Japanese sets, due to some of the non-standard ways of getting round PAL patents, though. I haven't yet worked out the "who and when" of true PAL on Japanese sets, though they do account for a large part of my interest.

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Posted : 09/04/2020 11:26 am
Nuvistor
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I think there was a Dynatron Set with a tint control, middle 70’s. I think it was a gimmick, the same chassis in Pye sets did not have one.

It was in the RGB drive part of the circuit. 
Brochure inn the library.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/dynatron/

 

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Posted : 09/04/2020 12:37 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @nuvistor

I think there was a Dynatron Set with a tint control, middle 70’s

I'm sure the 1973 CTV27 (PYE 721 chassis) I used to have, (now in The_Telemans collection) had a tint control. Certainly as late as 1978 the CTV33VCR (PYE 741 chassis) did have the tint control.

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Posted : 09/04/2020 12:52 pm
Cathovisor
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You're forgetting the ITT sets with it. Remember the ad with the Native American in full head dress telling you how you could stop him from being a 'paleface' by using said tint control?

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Posted : 09/04/2020 12:57 pm
Nuvistor
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I had forgotten, no Native American but photos of the tint control.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/itt/

 

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Posted : 09/04/2020 1:13 pm
crustytv
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Not forgetting G6, 501, it had tint control at the rear with the vertical hold

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Posted : 09/04/2020 1:34 pm
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