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Sony Trinitron KV-1320ub, More B&W than colour... Help?  

 
TRIOKenW
(@triokenw)
New V-Ratter Registered

Hi, I'm in search of some help after a recent acquisition on eBay. I've been in search of a colour tv (specifically a Trinitron) for years and finally found a kv-1320ub, 'fully working order' and went to pick it up from the guy and it all seemed pretty legit. However when I got home, to my utter dismay, the colours appeared to be freaking out when tuning into modulator (on the pictures the colour was perfect), what was worse was there was no sound (however this isn't as important an issue currently as it could be due to the modulator).

The ad on eBay said that it had been 'restored' a year earlier by another chap, so god  knows what has been done to this poor tv, and to add more salt to the wound, after leaving it for a while switched off, I came back to have another look, and all the colours had gone! completely gone, as if the gun had packet it up. Now I know before it appeared to die the colours, although all over the place, where bright and strong, and doing some quick checks, the CRT seems to be ok for the age, decent brightness and isn't lazy and has semi-decent sharpness.

I am also aware that this is a hybrid set, so I wonder if the valves may have got knocked in transport? I have attached photos of what the set looks like currently with a test colour bars being displayed, unfortunately didn't get any pics of when the colour was still active.

image0

I work more on audio gear, and have very limited knowledge (limited, but have picked up some knowledge along the way) and although I have some other B&W's around the house, I have been lucky enough that they work fine, so a colour tv with no colour is a bit daunting for me, so I'm hoping someone could help me out and give some pointers, it would be greatly appreciated, cheers.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/10/2020 5:13 pm
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TRIOKenW
(@triokenw)
New V-Ratter Registered

So after having discussed the matter with the seller it came to my attention that I hadn't tried my original Atari 2600 with the tv, and low and behold, the colour came back full, stable and bright (and with sound!). However, this leaves me still with the problem that I cannot use anything modern, or at least find a good combo that works.

I have an HDMI to component which I know is good for a fact (had used it with my mini portable Trinitron set) so it could be the modulator. Any advice on hooking up to the tv would be much appreciated, thankfully this isn't an internal problem!

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Topic starter Posted : 05/10/2020 5:52 pm
PYE625
(@pye625)
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Hi there, if your set is the 1320UB it will be all transistor. I dare say the set is perfectly fine as I have similar issues with using mine with some modern sources. A modulator providing a PAL-I UHF output between CH21 and CH68 would be suitable.

I notice above in your photo the set is showing PAL-N. I am not entirely sure this system is suitable, but other's may confirm if not.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Posted : 05/10/2020 7:19 pm
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Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
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The colour decoder in these sets is not a standard PAL decoder has far as I am aware. They will require a signal that is near as possible to the PAL specifications to work reliably. This wasn’t a problem when receiving the broadcast quality off air that the stations provided. Other sources may not quite follow the standard and give problems.

There are quite a few threads on the forum about this model, worth using the search bar to have a read of them.

Edit: I should have looked more closely didn’t see the ‘N’, differences between the PAL versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL#PAL-N_(Argentina,_Paraguay_and_Uruguay)

Frank

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Posted : 05/10/2020 7:25 pm
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irob2345
(@irob2345)
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On PAL N, the sound carrier is on 4.5MHz and the colour subcarrier is 3.58..MHz. So that's why it doesn't work. What are you using to generate the signal, apart from the modulator?

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Posted : 06/10/2020 3:10 am
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sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

Now the question is what standard is the TV designed to work on? Is it a PAL I (UK) set or is it for another system altogether? PAL N is for South America (Argentina and possibly Brazil). The PAL standards are not compatible in all cases.

It might tell you on the back of the TV. Where is the PAL N logo being generated? If it's from the Atari and your Sony TV is PAL I, that is your problem and also why you have no sound. It's not a fault with the TV in that case.

Some games consoles had a system switch, usually PAL B (European Continent except France and Russia) and PAL I (UK) so you could switch over as appropriate. Other consoles may have had more switching options so check if you can change yours.

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Posted : 06/10/2020 1:10 pm
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TRIOKenW
(@triokenw)
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thank you all!, concerning the modulator, thats fine, actually it seemed to be a complete fluke, i was utilizing another converter (HDMI to Component) which worked perfectly with my other sets, until when i got this new tv for some reason it seemed to have died and gone into monochrome this is also where the pal N was being generated, so ive ordered a new one and hopefully it will work. i didnt know about the pal regions (should have done some deeper research in hindsight), so when i get the new one i will switch it to GB pal 1 and give it a go. i checked the label on the back and it doesnt say about the region specified, but since this is uhf only and bought originally in england i will assume it is correclty set from factory to pal 1, either way it will take some days to order the new converter, so when it arrives i will post an update. i thank you all for the brilliant help! i seem to have got off lucky, and it couldve been alot worse; i seemed to have jumped straight to the worst case scenario since i usually have bad luck with finding good working stuff, even if it says it works. atleast now i know, when i collect another set that actually has a serious issue i cant diagnose i can come here for some good help and advice, thank you i am very grateful!! ?

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Topic starter Posted : 06/10/2020 7:18 pm
sideband
(@sideband)
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Posted by: @triokenw

 i didnt know about the pal regions (should have done some deeper research in hindsight), so when i get the new one i will switch it to GB pal 1 and give it a go. ?

Well there are quite a few PAL regions and they were not always compatible. Across Europe, PAL B was used, the main difference between that and ours was the sound carrier at 5.5Mhz as opposed to ours which was 6Mhz. All that happened was no sound when played on a UK set (and the same if a UK set was taken abroad). Usually easily fixed with a tweak to the sound I.F. It wasn't always easy though and PAL N was the most unusual and (I think) the least used as it was confined to a few South American countries. If you Google PAL standards, you should find information.

Your set will be PAL I so just make sure that any converter you use is the same or at least switchable.

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Posted : 06/10/2020 7:52 pm
irob2345
(@irob2345)
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The reason it worked on other TVs is simply that many of the newer TV designs used either the Philips "world" chip or a variation of it.

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Posted : 06/10/2020 11:44 pm
RichardFromMarple
(@richardfrommarple)
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@sideband

I remember someone posting on another site that they converted some small portable sets for lorry drivers so they could watch TV while at rest stops on the Continent.  Luckily many channels on UHF had programming in English with subtitles.  The conversion included a switch so the sets could still pick up system I when at home.

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Posted : 07/10/2020 11:32 am
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

It was easier when ceramic filters were used for the sound I.F. Some sets even had provision for fitting both 5.5 and 6Mhz filters. If not you had to get creative when fitting a changeover switch.

Not so easy with older sets that only had a coil fitted. You could usually tune this down to 5.5Mhz but then it wouldn't work when back in the UK....

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Posted : 07/10/2020 12:51 pm
RichardFromMarple
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@sideband

The above engineer used to fit a small circuit board (veroboard I'm guessing) with a ceramic filer for 5.5Mhz if the main board didn't have provision for two of them.

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Posted : 07/10/2020 10:03 pm
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
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I've had trouble with these Sony's and a couple of Hitachi's when trying to use them with a Sumvision Cyclone SD card media player fed into the workshop RF system, they just display either wrongly locked colours or just random flashing bands of colour, I did tweak one of the Hitachi sets, but then it wouldn't work with the output of anything else! They also don't like the output of the HDMI to AV converter I have either, so there is something a bit rubbish about these devices, which other sets seem to be able to cope with.

Regards,

Lloyd

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Posted : 08/10/2020 6:20 pm