TV identification challenge - Thorn 4000?

Hi 70

I think you forgot to attach the photo 😀 

I think this is the same TV query that you posted about on UKVRRR back in March https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198939 Luckily, I remembered your thread over there, so nabbed the photo for below.

As for it being a 4000?

Well the 4000 range was limited, brochures below show the complete 4000 range that were on offer, and the only one that looks close is the 3C05. However, I don't believe it is a 3C05 for the same suspicion you already have. That being the TV in your photo clearly has a cabinet bevel all around the side edges, as many did TVs of the time, but the 3C05 did not have this. Also, your nan's TV looks (I know, it is difficult to be sure) to be made of a good wooden affair. The 3C05 was chipboard and fablon.

Here is Jim's 3C05 (4000), although the mask is very like the one on your nan's TV, as you can see the 3C05 does not have a cabinet edge bevel, so that is ruled out. You can also see the fablon (fake wood covering) lifting across the top of Jim's set.

Now, the 3C06 (4000) did have a decorative edge and not just produced in white, but also wood. However, the edge is not bevelled, and the mask was silver, not black, so that is also ruled out.

Your nan’s TV

4K Brochures
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/ferguson/
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/hmv/

Posted by: @19seventie

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it's definitely a Thorn going from the stand

I'm not as authoritative as you on stands, for the most part they all look alike to me, the only ones I can often pick out by sight are the Thorn TX9, and stereo stands. Anyway, I don't know why, but when I look at your nan's set, I get Philips vibes.

Posted by: @19seventie

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A while ago I was going through photographs with my nan

Perhaps you can help jog her memory, where were the user controls located on the TV, what type of controls were they, sliders, rotational, how about the channel selection, was it just manual or did it have remote. Did they rent or buy, If rented can they remember the outlet? If purchased, can they remember the store and how much it cost? Did it ever breakdown, and if so, who did they get to service it?

There are a myriad of clues you can gather, just a thought. I hope all the above is useful, but I'm afraid finding the exact TV from the limited detail of that photo is nigh on impossible, I wish you luck though.

For interest sake only, here is a link to the Thorn and AWA models of the 4000 that were made in Australia.

The styling was VERY different!

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/awathornc_thorn_9064_4ka_series.html

Hi Chris

Doh! Thank you for attaching the photo, not quite sure how I forgot to add that!

I didn't realise that that was the complete 4000 series, seems quite a small run, especially compared to the likes of the 3000/3500. Lovely sets nonetheless. In a sense I'm glad it's not a 4000 as it may well mean there are a few dotted around the country... With a bit of luck! I did also think it looks to be of true wooden construction rather than chipboard and fablon, but as you say it can be hard to know for sure. 

I'm definitely no expert on stands, as like you say they can look very similar, but after going through the BRC Thorn sets brochures it definitely seems to me that the stand/tube bezel points in the direction of Thorn. I've even just had another look at some other brochures to see if any sets had similar. Some Pyes have similar bezels, but in silver, but the stands are much more squared off, or far too rounded. I agree about the Philips vibes though, my G8 (G26K522) has a near identical cabinet bevel, but of course no bezel round the CRT, just some trim, and looking through the Philips colour brochures, their stands are identical to Pyes, either too squared or too rounded. 

I'll definitely have an ask again as I'm round on Wednesday, I may dig through the photos again as there may well be one I've missed where it's in the background (I doubt it, I'm forever scanning old photos for the TVs! But who knows) I do know that they rented from Radio Rentals at one point, so it's probably the best bet. The only other chains I know we had in town were D|E|R and Leytonia, but I've never heard these be mentioned, only RR. 

It's definitely been helpful, I know that we're looking in the right direction, and with the fantastic database on this site I'm sure eventually something could pop up that could lead us closer yet. 

Thank you for the help!

Rob, I've always liked Australian sets, that 4000 set is very attractive! I love how wide it is, the cabinet must look empty inside!

Thanks again
'70

Posted by: @19seventie

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I do know that they rented from Radio Rentals at one point, so it's probably the best bet. The only other chains I know we had in town were D|E|R

If it was rented from either of those outlets, there's a high probability it is, as you suspect, a Thorn TV. One question I forgot to ask which may help, what year was the photo?

p.s.

I did wonder if the TV actually had a mask, I wondered if due to the lack of quality in the photo, what we are in fact seeing is the dark banding on the outer edge of the CRT. Probably clutching at straws now.

I've tried, not very well, to recreate your photo with a similar TV from my collection, it may help illustrate what I'm getting at. My TV has the same bevelled edge. Even dropping the level of detail, contrast and brightness did not help.

I'm fairly confident it is a RR set. I'm not totally sure of the year of the photo, but i'm pretty sure it's from the 70s, very early 80s at most, but I'd bet 70s judging from their decor, I know they changed to a much lighter scheme in the 80s, and maybe even another set in the 80s, I recall seeing a photo of an early 80s VCR sitting on the shelf of a stand, but my memory may be playing tricks on me. 

I can see what you mean about the mask, but I do believe it has a mask. I have edited the photo slightly, and I think it does show a bit of a difference between a mask and the band around the CRT. I've added some lines to show what I think is the edge of the CRT compared to the mask. 

Unfortunately I have no way to actually scan the photograph, so a photo of a photo is the best I can do.

I do very much see what you mean about the mask, I did wonder myself at points. I'll definitely have a dig around on Wednesday, and see if I can take a better photo of the photo which may help. It's definitely going to be a challenge!

What's doing my head in, is the mask really does look like a 4K/9800 mask, but the cabinet does not match any of the 4K's. Here is the mask of my 26" console HMV 4000

Here is the self same mask as used on the 26" Ferguson 3745 9800 series. Again the cabinet does not match your nan's TV, no bevel edge. I wonder if we're looking for a Thorn 9800 series TV with a bevelled edge cabinet. We need ex Thorn engineers @jcdaze and @jayceebee to scour their memories, did such a cabinet exist. If only we could see the user controls, that would likely clear it up. As you can see the 9800, not only appears to share the 4000 mask, the user controls are virtually identical, and I think it was ultrasonic remote too. Oh, and the stand of the 9800 appear to be a match for yours.

That's what's confusing me too. I'm no expert on the makes/models of sets, but it feels like we've narrowed it down to almost a point, but we're still miles off. Though it does give me hope, that the second we find a set with that mask and cabinet bevel, we've found the model in question. It seems to me that there wouldn't have been very many other models in this presentation, if any.

I'll ask my dad if he remembers any of it too. I know he never really cared for what TVs etc looked like being around the age of 10 at the time, but there may be a chance he remembers some kind of feature which may lead us in the right direction. 

I don't know if this might help at all, only pictures I can find related to the Thorn 9800. The b/w picture is the 22 inch (3749,6748 and 3752) version with a curved in looking cabinet. 

Hi Jim, indeed I have that manual but it's none of those. I had the 3749, before moving it on to John, due to the bow front, I think we can confidently rule that one out.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1978-ferguson-3749/

Maybe there was another 9K or 96K series TV that share the 4K/98K mask?

@crustytv I never took much notice of the front of televisions, I was more interested in the insides at the time.

I've always liked the look of that bow fronted 3749, quite a distinctive set. 

For me the front of a set is just as important as the guts, but I totally understand! I do seem to spend more time round the back of a TV than I do the front!

I had a google for the 9600 chassis, and I found this set, whilst not identical it could be a step closer into the right direction, as it has a mask, and has got a slight bevel to the cabinet, although different to my nans.

EDIT: I notice I have titled the photograph 9800, this was accidental, it's a 9600 as you're all probably aware of

If I had to take a stab at it a possible contender may be a 5779 for D|E|R or 8779 for RR with 8800 chassis but I cannot find any pictures of either so not sure. The stand and bezel are unmistakably Thorn.

Brilliant! It's great to know that some potential numbers are known. 

Out of curiosity, what made you think of those numbers? From memory or anything else?

I also asked my dad if he remembered anything about it, but he doesn't unfortunately. 

Thanks
'70

Posted by: @19seventie

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Brilliant! It's great to know that some potential numbers are known. 

Out of curiosity, what made you think of those numbers? From memory or anything else?

From memory, I've got very good recall of Thorn rental model numbers but I struggle with retail TV after the 8800 chassis and what I had for breakfast. 🤣 🤣 

Well, it's a good thing you can remember the important things! 🤣 

I'd really like an 8800, the HMV 2725 has always tickled my fancy ever since I discovered them! Then again, so have the majority of Thorn TVs!

I got my grandmother a 2725 through the staff sales scheme, very nice cabinet but I always felt due to it being fitted with the 8800 the picture lacked oomph. The 9800 which followed with a good 22" CRT had a better picture in my opinion. Now the 9800 is basically an 8800 with some cost savings. I will elaborate a little more on a possible reason I felt it was better when I post a thread on the 3749 I've been working on recently which I got from @Crustytv. BTW the 9800 was hated by most of the trade, not by me though.

I look forward to hearing your reasons, as for the life of me I cannot think as to how a cheaper version of something would be a better performer. I definitely would be interested in hearing that. Definitely an attractive looking set though, high up on my want-list. 

I look forward to your thread!

Posted by: @19seventie

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Definitely an attractive looking set though, high up on my want-list. 

The 98k would appear to be as rare as the 4k. Probably due to it being universally as hated as the 4k. Due to that, it would seem they suffered the same scrappage fate. In my 14 years of collecting, the 98k I passed on to John was the only one to surface, I've not seen one since either.

Here's the basic work I did to just get it going before moving it on.> https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1978-ferguson-3749/

Of course there might be one or two lurking not yet discovered, but the chances are slim. I know of only three 4k's in the UK and that's my two and Jim's. As for the 98k..... just John's!

I've a similar problem trying to track down two sets I really would like and that appear to be just rentals. Not helped by the recover and destroy policy by some of the big rental firms. Just have to hope some escaped, as some evidently did.