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Rebuilding a homebrew coil winder

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FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
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Hi Gary
Thanks for your comments. I have never done layer winding with paper between layers any transformers that I have to rewind if they haven't already got cheeks I fit some and wind between them, it makes life a lot easier and as you say with modern wire there is really no need for the paper.

I would have liked to have seen your article, it sounds very interesting. I am just 2 years a member of the BVWS so I guess your article was before that.

The Bulletin is a great publication with well written articles, one I always look forward to receiving . I would like to support it by writing an article for it but I'm afraid my writing skills are not very good.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 26/10/2014 4:23 pm
pclover
(@pclover)
Busy V-Ratter Deactivated Account

Hello Frank

Well if you make the time to do an article the Editor and the Proof readers are normally happy to knock it into shape if your writing skills are below par. Reading your input on here though I don't see much of a problem. BTW it is a way of improving them and engineers need to express themselves on paper. I'm glad you are a member of the BVWS and hope you enjoy it. One of the best things about it is the beautifully prepared Bulletin but without quality (interesting, not done before etc) copy it can never be absorbing.

As to not seeing my articles, well you don't want to. Mine was just a crude effort but has wound field coils and transformers and got me out of trouble in restorations. I don't have the mechanical skills that you have and neither the PIC experience. I always say that I want to have a go at it but a radio comes my way and another restoration gets started. The cheap development board is amazing value and I used to be a pretty good Basic programmer so one day maybe ...

Yes! I agree on not needing paper for insulation but I believe it was often put in (by nimble fingered ladies) so that the next layer would wind smoothly.

A friend, who is not a member but with an interest in coil winders, commented:
It does not address the issue of being able to traverse smoothly back and forth without stopping the winder at the end of each layer. He was also surprised at the amount of movement of the rear jockey wheel and watching the video again so am I. Perhaps it is because the wire does not come off the feed reel smoothly ?

I appreciated that this is an on-going development but it would be good to see, in conclusion, it wind a multi layer coil. It wouldn't be hard to knock up a bobbin with end cheeks * and make a dummy coil with a challenging wire gauge (how about around 40 SWG).

Often coils were wound without end cheeks because of the wire feed snagging the cheeks which are bound to run a little out of true. Of course a way around this would be not to wind right up to the cheeks and let succeeding layers eventually spill over to it. A method without cheeks was to wind a layer and then apply a glue to the ends. It must have been very quick setting or perhaps they had a heater blowing hot air to assist drying.

Winding without cheeks allowed another possibility and that was winding more than one coil on the former tube and cutting them to make individual coils when it was de-mounted.

Good stuff and well done Gary

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Posted : 27/10/2014 10:49 am
Brian Cuff
(@briancuff)
Noble V-Ratter Rest in Peace

Exceptional work, Frank.
The movement of the jocky wheel Gary mentions could be down to the brake you have on the feed reel. Maybe polish the "drum" a little more and add some fine oil. Player pianos use a similar way to steady the feed spool and they need to be oiled with sewing machine oil fairly often. Also perhaps a softening of the "pad" material would help!
Nevertheless, a fantastic project - you must be proud of what you have achieved. :aap :aap

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Posted : 27/10/2014 12:26 pm
Refugee
(@refugee)
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The jockey movement looks to me like there is a sticky label on the cheek of the supply spool.
I am building a slightly more crude winder and it has a wheel bearing that was salvaged from a broken micro scooter under the supply spool with a manual brake formed by adding sideways pressure to the bearing.

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Posted : 27/10/2014 2:02 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Trevor
Yes time is the most difficult part to find enough of for a project

Hi Gary
I will contact the Editor and see what he says.

"A friend, who is not a member but with an interest in coil winders, commented:
It does not address the issue of being able to traverse smoothly back and forth without stopping the winder at the end of each layer. "
I am probably been dense but I don't understand this comment?

I have some 40 SWG wire, I used it in the first clip. I have not wound a multi layer coil before but when I get a chance I will try one, it will require the program to be changed a little to stop winding when each end of the coil is reached to allow the paper to be inserted. How any layers? What type of paper between layers, Baking paper?

H Brian
You are correct as to why the jockey pulley is moving so much at slow speeds. The brake wheel is slightly off center, it could do with being put in a lathe to out but I have none. I may try doing it with a drill.

Hi Refugee
Your winder sounds interesting any chance of starting a thread.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2014 4:13 pm
Refugee
(@refugee)
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I started building it ages ago and it has been on and off the to do pile for about 3 years. It has just been back again this summer for the micro scooter bearings to be fitted after I found a broken one fly-tipped and salvaged the parts.
viewtopic.php?t=2602&p=26538#p26538
The stuff you put between the layers is oil based.
This should at least give you the search term for you to add the coil former width to.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-TEMPRATU ... 258f60794e

I am pretty sure that coils without tape or paper were wound with something sticky on the wire added by a brush either by the jockey wheel or onto the bobbin while a pair of cheeks were pushed up to to the ends of the coil former. Then the cheeks of the bobbin would be built on later.

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Posted : 27/10/2014 5:56 pm
pclover
(@pclover)
Busy V-Ratter Deactivated Account

Hello Frank

"A friend, who is not a member but with an interest in coil winders, commented:
It does not address the issue of being able to traverse smoothly back and forth without stopping the winder at the end of each layer. "

"I am probably been dense but I don't understand this comment?"

Well as I understand it the videos and text only show winding a single layer. The hard part is getting it to slow, stop and than reverse for other layers. So winding a multi layer coil is the challenge !

You don't need interleaving paper with modern high insulation wire so it would be suck it and see how the winder copes with the less than smooth surface of the previous layer. I have a link, somewhere, for the paper but as I say this is really cosmetic. Yes! we all like to see a coil wound with side by side by turns, layer after layer but it wont work any better.

The Editor will jump at the chance of an article.

Gary

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Posted : 27/10/2014 8:23 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
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Hi Refugee
Thanks for the links.
That tape is reasonably priced.

Hi Gary
I understand now. I haven't made things as clear as I should have. The coils on the clips are multi layer.

At the start of the first clip you will see on the display. that the wire diameter is set to 144um this allows for the insulation as I am using 125um (40SWG) wire. You will also see that the coil width is set to 10.1mm and I have set the turns required (which cant be seen) to 200, so 200 * 144um = 28.8mm so that coil will have 2.8 layers.

In the second clip the wire diameter is set to 64um (0.05mm wire been wound) and the coil width is set to 4.99mm again 200 turns are been wound the coil will have 2.5 layers.

In the clips the transverse is moving so slowly and the camera is moving all the time, it is imposable to say from the clip which direction the carriage is moving. In the first clip I held the camera on the coil until the transverse change direction but watching the clip back it cant be seen that the direction has changed.

At what point's the carriage changes direction is set through the menu. In the menu "carriage setup" is selected . The carriage is moved to the left side of the coil using the "MOVE LEFT" and "MOVE RIGHT" buttons on the control panel, the "SET LT. STOP" button is pressed, this sets the point that the carriage changes direction from left to right.
The carriage is then moved to the right side of the coil and the "SET RT. STOP" button is pressed, this sets the point where the carriage changes direction from right to left. The width of the coil is also calculated and displayed on the bottom line of the display. The left stop and right stop can be changed at any time during winding via the menu. While in "carriage setup" the "FIND LEFT" and "FIND RIGHT" buttons moves the carriage to the left or right stop to aid changing the stops after they have already been setup. When exiting "carriage setup" if the carriage is outside the set bounds of the coil the controller will move it to the nearest end of the coil. The controller just counts the number of steps the stepper motor takes to keep track of where the carriage is at, there is no need for any switches.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2014 10:12 pm
pclover
(@pclover)
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Thanks for the clarification Frank.

I really hope you do an article. A good tip, from someone who has done plenty, is to get a fellow enthusiast to proof read it before you submit it. Often stuff I write is clear to me but not to someone else.

cheers Gary

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Posted : 28/10/2014 12:27 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

I have centered the brake wheel by putting the supply shaft (bearing end) in the in a pillar drill and and grinding the brake wheel down while it was spinning.

The top pulley on the carriage was wobbling slightly so I have swapped it for a "V" groove bearing.

I have wound a test coil of 500 turns, this time on a former from a small mains transformer. I wound it with the hand cranked Take-up.
To take the video clip I fastened my phone to the bench Anglepoise to keep it steady, it is easier to see the movement of the carriage in this clip.
The large movements of the jockey arm are mainly due to me not keeping a constant speed as I wound.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 02/11/2014 2:55 am
Brian Cuff
(@briancuff)
Noble V-Ratter Rest in Peace

One last comment, Frank, on what is an excellent job, is to get hold of some pulleys for wire guidance which have a much sharper "Vee" with a narrow bottom (if you'll excuse the expression) as this will improve thr wire guidance with multi-layer winding. Also the distance between the last guide pulley and the coil should be as short as possible, again to improve guidance.
I echo what others have said. Your project would make an excellent article for thr BVWS magazine.

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Posted : 02/11/2014 10:45 am
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
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Hi Brian
I will keep a look out for better pulleys.
I hadn't realized that the pulley was so far away from the former. I had it setup with the larger pulley, then changed the pulley for the smaller bearing and never reset it.
Thanks for the encouragement on the article, I will give it a bash, but I find it a daunting task that will take me quite a while to complete.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 02/11/2014 11:11 pm
Brian Cuff
(@briancuff)
Noble V-Ratter Rest in Peace

If you like, I could turn up a pair for you out of some nylon rod I have. Let me know what diameter you want and bore size. It will only take half an hour.

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Posted : 03/11/2014 12:47 am
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
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Hi Brian
Thanks very much for your kind offer, I will send you a PM.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 04/11/2014 1:40 am
Dr Wobble
(@dr-wobble)
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Excellent job Frank, its inspired me to improve my winder. Good advice too Brian about the guide wheel being as close as poss to the coil.

Again,well done Frank, I'll definetely be nicking some of your ideas, : ) Andy.

Curiously curious

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Posted : 29/12/2014 1:38 pm
FRANK.C
(@frank-c)
Active V-Ratter Registered

Hi Andy
Great to hear that your going to do more work on your winder. Keep us updated I will be interested to read about it.

Over the holidays I got a chance to draw up the circuit of my old transverse controller, I have attached it in case anyone is interested.
The stepper driver was got from RS and is still available. RS stock no. 443-0102
With the right combination of stepper motor and lead screw it can be very effective, I used a 20 step motor with a M5 lead screw which worked quite well.

Frank

www.electronics.frankcuffe.ovh

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Topic starter Posted : 31/12/2014 12:57 am
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