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Smartphones?

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Katie Bush
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Hi all,

I guess it's time to move with the times and get a smartphone, but can anyone give me any pointers to what to look out for, and what to avoid?

I have an ageing Motorola MB525, a smartphone of sorts, but it's no so smart these days. It certainly does do any mobile internet malarkey anymore, even though it still serves as a decent telephone!

I guess I'm looking at something out of the smart-Alec bracket, say, Samsung S-summatorother, or Apple iPhone whatever it is.  The biggest issue for me is that I use a pay as you go service, and rarely use more than £20 to £30 a year (that's right, I said year) so I'm not going for a £20 a month contract, or anything like that.  I suppose it makes me an awkward customer, but I see no point in paying for something I don't use (like my dog insurance - £71 a month! Daylight robbery). Anyway, I digress. What I'm looking at is going to be second hand, still viable for the foreseeable future (unlike my MB525) with internet (data) functionality, and not too expensive.

So to begin with, what are we all using, and would you recommend it?

 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:44 pm
Nuvistor
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Only spending £20-£30 a year do you really need a smart phone? I found cheap smart phones a pain, that was a few years ago they could be better now.

I use an iPhone, had it 5 years it was expensive but is excellent, but if I was using a mobile phone as little as you I would manage with a standard mobile phone.
 

Frank

 
Posted : 10/05/2020 10:55 pm
Katie Bush
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@nuvistor

Hi Frank,

Ordinarily, I'd agree with that, but if this Covid pandemic is here for the long term, a smartphone will become essentially our passport/permit to move about, plus, if I'd had a decent phone during my week in hospital, I'd have had a bit better entertainment. Granted, i would have spent more on it than with my bog-standard phone, but it would still be only pay as you go, and as such, still much less per annum than a contract.

 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:03 pm
Nuvistor
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@katie-bush

There are cheaper deals around but I pay £11.90 inc vat pm on a yearly SIM only contract. This gives unlimited texts and calls to most numbers, and 5GB data. Texts are getting redundant so it costs the network little, iMessages, WhatsApp seem to be the in thing now but the networks charge exorbitant prices if you send photo texts which are not included, MMS type texts, hence the rise of the ‘free’services.

 

Whatever phone you’re get make sure it has support available for a reasonable time taking into account the price you pay for the phone.

Frank

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 6:50 am
crustytv
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Posted by: @katie-bush

if I'd had a decent phone during my week in hospital, I'd have had a bit better entertainment. Granted, i would have spent more on it than with my bog-standard phone, but it would still be only pay as you go, and as such, still much less per annum than a contract.

If you mean entertained as in playing games, a cheap DS or PSP will keep you entertained and cost you a lot less.

If you mean entertained as in surfing the net, picking up e-mails, participating in forum life, social media or watching YouTube vids, then you are going to need data. Data on a pay-as-you-go phone is HELL! Therefore, I totally disagree with your above statement.

Like you I was a die-hard pay-as-you go, that was until two years ago. There now follows an analogy, energy suppliers pre-payment meters are the worst tariff for the least well off. Pay-as-you-go now is the equivalent, purchasing pay-as-you-go data is expensive and quickly used up, been there, done that!

Two years ago I moved onto a sim only contract with Plusnet, my broadband supplier. It can be cancelled any month, no yearly lock-in contract. I Pay £6.50 per month for 4.5GB of data per month, unlimited texts and unlimited calls (yes free call's, boy have I made use of that). I now wonder why I have a land line, Oh yeah, you have to have landline for broadband, though that looks to be changing soon, at which point the landline will go.

There are even cheaper deals, iMobile currently do £5pm for 1GB data and any unused is carried over and yes its month only. So if you're a mostly a modest internet data user, you can carry over any unused data building up a nice amount of data for the times like your hospital stays, when you really need it. Smarty do similar. I also believe BT offer something equally cheap but BT being BT, want to lock you in for 18months so you would have to be foolish to go with them.

I know its more than your current £30 p.a. but if you intend to use it as you suggest, pay-as-you go is not really the way, cheap sim only, rolling 1 month is. That leads neatly on to what phone, horses for courses and it will be mainly down to your pocket.

As for phone, both my son and I use a Samsung Galaxy S8 Edge, bought second-hand in pristine condition from 4Gadgets. They are great company providing great phones, so much so I also bought phones there for my wife and son. To keep the cost to your pocket you can choose from their used stock of phones, Good, Very Good, Excellent or Pristine. My wife uses a Huawei P30 and thinks it's the dogs danglies but agrees the screen on the Samsung just seems to render "dippy wet clear and gorgeous" images, her words not mine.

Just my slant on it, no doubt others will see it differently. ? 

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Posted : 11/05/2020 7:20 am
hamid_1
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You don't have to pay a lot of money every month to own a smartphone. Of course the networks want you to buy the latest Samsung or Apple device from them and pay £40 per month contract for 2 years - but that works out at nearly £1000 altogether!

As Chris says, you can buy secondhand smartphones, but you can also buy fairly cheap new ones - such as this one: https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1952085

One point to note: smartphones have built-in obsolescence. The operating system software (iOS for Apple iPhones or Android for most others) gradually becomes outdated and no longer supported. This is another tactic to try and force you to upgrade and take a new contract every couple of years. Official software updates are provided for some smartphones, but only up to a point. Some time ago I was given an old Samsung Galaxy SIII with Android 4.4.2 (the last official version for it, and outdated now.) I was able to unofficially update it to Android 7. That and a new battery (£9 from Amazon) practically turned it into a new phone, which I'm now using. But unofficial updating is not for the faint-hearted. Therefore I'd recommend either a cheap new phone, a not-too-old used one or at least one that can be updated.

Second point: how much it costs to run a smartphone each month largely depends on how much data you will use. Again, as Chris says, your existing tariff may not be the best value for you, but there are a number of options.

Firstly all smartphones these days have Wi-Fi as well as mobile data. Wifi data does not use any of your mobile phone credit. If you can use wi-fi as much as possible (e.g. if the hospital you visit has free wifi, and you use your home broadband wifi at home) you can reduce your mobile data usage and thus your monthly cost.

Don't forget you can download videos and music to your smartphone over wifi or using a USB cable to your PC, then play it offline without needing any data connection. Likewise, some games can work offline.

I went on to a pay-as-you-go plan, turned off mobile data on the smartphone and only use wifi (or mobile data as a last resort). It has now been costing me less than £1 a month!

Another option: your existing PAYG tariff may have the option of buying a data add-on or bundle which can be cheaper than paying as you go per megabyte. But the catch, like pay monthly, is that your data bundle usually expires after one month whether you've used it or not. It usually only makes sense to buy a bundle if you expect to use most or all of it within the time allowed.

Or you could change your plan. This site is a good one for researching mobile phone deals and seeing how much you can get for your money: https://kenstechtips.com/

The final option is one that Chris hinted at. Get a mobile SIM deal with a lot of (or unlimited) mobile data included, then cancel your home phone and broadband. The savings will pay for the phone, with possibly some left over each month. You can use your smartphone as a wi-fi hotspot, and connect your home PC or laptop to it share its internet connection. This is called tethering, and OFCOM have forced the mobile networks to allow it (some previously didn't, or charged extra).

Before cancelling your home broadband, it's definitely worth trying the mobile internet connection for a month or so to see how it performs. This will depend on the signal strength in your area and how many others are using it. Different networks may have better or worse coverage in some areas. At least with pre-pay or 1-month rolling deals, there is not much risk if you're not happy, just cancel and move on. If you buy a smartphone on a long-term contract, you are stuck with it.

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 2:58 pm
Nuvistor
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Mobile phone connections in the hospitals I have visited were abysmal so I wouldn’t count on it being useful unless you have experience of the particular ward. There may be WiFi at the hospital, possibly chargeable like many TV systems they install.
You could of course download lots of content at home for use there, though I hope you don’t have to go in again.

 

Frank

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 3:15 pm
Cathovisor
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In my particular case I bought a nice shiny new Samsung J5 from Amazon for about 130 quid. What surprised me - and the staff in the EE shop - was that it was a 'grey import' and thus was the dual-SIM model not sold in the UK at the time!

This of course means that should I wish, I could choose separate data and voice SIMS for the best deal (I'm on a SIM-only deal as it's far cheaper than PAYG). As it stands, if I can ever go abroad again to France for my holidays it might be expedient to buy an Orange SIM for calls in France when the UK leaves the EU on the 31st of December.

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 7:28 pm
peterscott
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I spend very little on Pay as You Go with 1p mobile. They use EE network. Have absolutely no problems with them.

Peter

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Posted : 11/05/2020 7:36 pm
ntscuser
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Posted by: @katie-bush

if I'd had a decent phone during my week in hospital, I'd have had a bit better entertainment.

According to a lady friend of mine who recently spent a long spell in hospital you would be better off with a laptop or tablet you can use as a makeshift television. I managed to buy mine just before prices shot up.

Classic TV Theme Tunes

 
Posted : 11/05/2020 9:14 pm
Pye Man
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Lots of useful information on this thread - especially from Chris.

I've had a couple of smartphones - the first one was a Nokia Lumia Microsoft system which is now obsolete. I don't live my life on a phone so although it seemed limited it did well-enough for me. After a couple of years it failed - the side switch failed which seemed a weakness - but needing to be contactable for work I nipped down to my local Argos and picked up a £25 'dumbphone'. I then got an obscure brand budget handset from Amazon that used the Android system. It had a lot of features but came with minimal instructions in Chinglish. I had to resort to YouTube to find out how the back came off to install the battery and SIM card. However, the build quality wasn't great and when it failed I went back to the dumbphone which has survived being dropped and, given my needs, I've continued with it for a few years now.

I've put off having another and done occasional but considered research in the meantime. I have discounted the likes of iPhone which, whilst no doubt quality items, as status symbols command a very high price. Not particularly recent iPhones in my local 'uncles' seem to command healthy three-figure prices. The thing to watch out for with  budget phones is that they often come with either cut-down versions of the Android system or older versions of Android so are further down the road to obsolescence, or are compromised in features, or both.

For a while I considered one of the Alcatels but these seemed have mixed reviews - the local Tesco had some on display so I could at least see what they looked like though I wanted SIM-free of course. However, I do know a young chap with one who is quite a heavy user and he seems happy with it. Huawei have a budget brand called Honor, though, bearing in mind the issues between the US government and Huawei there may be difficulty with updates so I decided to steer clear and on my recent foray at Argos I found a Motorola Moto G7 Play for £100 with full Android. Though relying on a brand name can be misleading - I think Motorola is now part of Lenovo - I decided that I didn't want an unknown brand and bought from Argos as I return is easy via my local Sainsbury's if there is a problem. Unfortunately, I can't tell you very much about it at the moment as it is very early days.

It seems that if you want a smart phone to do just fairly basic browsing, etc., it's working out the trade-off between the inevitable obsolescence of any smartphone and initial cost. Buy too cheaply and it's 'buy cheap - buy twice' though I have figured that if I get a couple of years out of the Motorola that will probably work out more economical per year than, say, an iPhone that can cost anything up to a grand but might not endure very much longer. However, please feel free to disagree! It does go against my grain to buy items that only have a life of a couple of years but that seems to be how it is with smartphones.

Nick

 
Posted : 15/05/2020 10:26 am
Nuvistor
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There’s an iPhone SE 2020 which I am considering, the iPhone I have is well into its 6th year and works well but the last OS update was Jan and I don’t expect any more. It will be passed down to grandchildren if I do splash out and will probably be good for them for a couple of years, battery replaced 18 months ago by Apple for £25.

The SE is just over £400 but I tried Android and couldn’t get on with it. The important point is that there is plenty of choice available, must be something to suit most people.

Wait for the review about the SE when it’s been in use for a while.

 

Frank

 
Posted : 15/05/2020 12:47 pm
crustytv
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Posted by: @pye-man

For a while I considered one of the Alcatels but these seemed have mixed reviews - the local Tesco had some on display so I could at least see what they looked like though I wanted SIM-free of course. However, I do know a young chap with one who is quite a heavy user and he seems happy with it

My wife had a bad experience with Txxxo and an Alcatel phone. Prior to getting her Huawei she had a crappy Nokia Lumia 535 Windows phone with pay-as-you-go sim. She wanted an Android phone and a large screen, spotted in Txxxos a Brand-new sim free, Alcatel V3 (6.5" screen).

She bought it, dropped in her PAYG sim and was a happy bunny, that was until one day the damn thing would not turn on. Then it started to get hot and I mean real hot, something not right with the battery. This all happened 8 months after buying it, so still in warranty, or so you would have thought! She phoned Txxxo mobile phone support, and she was told to send it in for repair.

Eventually after 2 weeks she received a parcel and a letter, the letter stated hers had been repaired, remember this was brand-new phone. When looking at the phone there was a honking great scratch on the screen and numerous on the metal back of the case. Hers was pristine, after all it was only 8 months old and she had always kept it in a protective case.

Pursuing it further they admitted her phone was kaput and they had sent her a replacement reconditioned. She asked why they lied in the letter stating hers had been repaired. She said that sending a replacement was unacceptable, that her phone was only 8 months old and surely still under guarantee. Also arbitrarily deciding to send her a second-hand replacement with screen and case damage, without her agreement was beyond belief.  To add insult to injury, the replacement phone was sim-locked to the Txxxo network! She had bought a sim free phone, so why had they locked it. This perplexed their little brains surely you were on our network......

What then ensued was a 4 month long wrangle with idiots, each time having to repeat the same long-winded story of their incompetence. I admit getting on the phone once and being rather rude on her behalf. Long story short, wife was without a phone for four months because they couldn't figure out how to unlock it , Txxxo didn't give two-hoots.

Eventually we escalated and found someone who cared and owned the fault, handled the case and finally replaced it with a different phone that was not locked, one week before the 12 months was up. Not one word of apology during the whole sordid affair.  I would never recommend anyone buys a phone from there or an Alcatel, certainly not if you need to get a phone repaired. Alcatel was always a cheap naff brand back in 1989 when I first got my analogue NEC brick phone, and is still a naff brand 31 years later.

4gadgets on the other hand, where I got the Galaxy phones are at the other end. Two weeks after buying my son his galaxy it failed. Called them, they sent a box the next day, I returned the phone back and a new pristine one was sent as a replacement. All this within 1 week, no fuss no hassle and communications were superb. Some folk are better left to selling groceries than branching out into mobile telephony.

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Posted : 15/05/2020 2:17 pm
Pye Man
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Posted by: @nuvistor

There’s an iPhone SE 2020 which I am considering, the iPhone I have is well into its 6th year and works well but the last OS update was Jan and I don’t expect any more.

Six years is a good life for a smartphone - you have surprised me there - so let's say your next one lasts the same that's £67 quid a year.

I also got a bit perturbed about the stories of updates to old iPhones slowing them down perhaps in a more deliberate than the natural problem of a new system on old hardware.

I'm sure the iPhone interface is good and friendly. When it comes to computers I work using Mac, Windows and Linux and I find the Mac easiest, most intuitive and the most robust (though I must add the caveat that I'm not as experienced or do as heavyweight work on the Linux machine).

Android system took a bit of getting used to after the Microsoft on the Lumia - at first I couldn't work out how to pick up a call! - eventually I had a couple of dry runs with a friend whilst we were in the same room!

There is one other thing that worries me with having an apparently expensive phone is being mugged for it in the street as a friend of mine was.

Nick

 
Posted : 15/05/2020 2:39 pm
Pye Man
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Posted by: @crustytv

I would never recommend anyone buys a phone from there or an Alcatel, certainly not if you need to get a phone repaired. Alcatel was always a cheap naff brand back in 1989 when I first got my analogue NEC brick phone, and is still a naff brand 31 years later.

I'd no idea Alcatel were that old - I'd never heard of them until a few years ago. In 1989 I had a Motorola 8500X with two batteries - one in and one on charge a la steam wireless.

I wasn't considering buying from Testhingy as at the time all the offers were all tied to a provider. It just gave me a clue as to what they looked like, size of screen, etc., in 'real life'.

When I saw that a lad at somewhere I frequently work had got an Alacatel - he's one of these types (about 20 y o) who spent his entire lunch hour on it*, sandwich in one hand, phone in the other, always in the same pose, and you could never get a word out of him I asked him - in one of the brief interludes that he was with us - how he got on with it and he said it was fine. I'd seen mixed reviews so didn't want to take another punt.

Your experience was abysmal. Definite sale of goods act territory but you can do without that sort of hassle. I'm a bit wary of buying technology from supermarkets. My previous Android phone went back to Amazon under guarantee. They did offer me a repair but as I became aware that I was probably dealing with someone in China or HK, and could get my money back under the Amazon deal, I went for the latter.

*This used to be really annoying - the correct meaning of social distancing - no interraction at all and even worse when occasionally there were two of them! However, note use of the past tense. Now eating one's lunch is something to be performed in a similar manner to that of other bodily functions - in private - that particular annoyance will be no more!

Nick

 
Posted : 15/05/2020 3:09 pm
Nuvistor
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@pye-man

They did slow the cpu clock down if the battery required replacing and only under very heavy cpu load to stop the phone crashing. Technically a reasonable decision. Unfortunately they forgot to tell the phone owner this was occurring and many bought new phones when it only required a new battery. Worse it appears  Apple store employees were unaware of this so didn’t advise them to change the battery.

So was it a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing? Whatever it has cost Apple dear in bad PR, lost money due to a reduced cost battery replacement program and a $500 million settlement.

The software now has a battery health report available in the phones setting section, they need to do the same for the iPad, the Mac OS already has it.

There could well be a reduction in performance in older phones due to older hardware when upgrading the OS, there sometimes is an inability to support new features in the OS, this is pretty standard in any OS upgrade due to hardware support.

Thats the story, a link to the latest info.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/05/15/apples-500m-agreement-to-settle-iphone-throttling-controversy-gets-preliminary-approval

 

 

 

Frank

 
Posted : 16/05/2020 6:01 am
helloekco
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Personally I'd recommend an iPhone, as I just find the main (only?) alternative, Android, to be roo reminiscent of how Windows was on PCs in the late 90s - glitchy and in need of technical know-how to get the best from it. That's my own admittedly limited experience of Android (I've always avoided it except on other people's phones when figuring things out on their behalf), but the iPhone's iOS usually "just works" and I find easier to navigate. As a software developer I spend enough time messing with computers that I don't want to have to do the same with my phone!

On the subject of operating system obsolescence, from what I've seen Android phones are worse for this with most if not all brands having their own proprietory flavours that tend to go out of support after a comparatively short time. iPhones on the other hand use one common operating system (albeit of differing versions depending on when produced) and are usually supplied with operating system updates for a few years, and after that there is still plenty of software available.

What I tend to do myself is buy my phones outright, second hand at about two years old, on eBay. That seems to be a good age at which to pay considerably less than the new price but where they are still fairly up to date. I have a SIM only contract with plenty of data and unlimited calls, which comes in at about £9 per month (and which is not the cheapest these days).

 
Posted : 17/05/2020 11:37 pm
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