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Can anyone identify Record player?

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Anonymous
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valves: UCL82 UY85
BSR player

Arrived unexpectedly by courier at 8 am! I expect my dad sent it.

Dozens of models using that style of deck and type of amp 1959 to 1970 I suspect. But not so many with that knob layout? Also tag, not PCB.

The capacitor is dated 1960 So 1959 or 1960 Model release date?

Acos cartridge with LP & 78 stylii

Any thoughts?

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 2:18 pm
sideband
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De-Luxe model with a two-stage amplifier and bass and treble controls! Might even have some negative feedback and sound half-decent. Certainly better than the single UL84 offerings.

Not so sure about the model but E.A.R comes to mind for some reason.....

Rich

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 2:45 pm
Anonymous
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Just
On/Off, Volume and Tone.

No bass/treble.

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 3:15 pm
Refugee
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The valves look to me like a half wave rectifier and a triode-pentode.
As there is no dropper present it would most likely be run from a tap on the motor.

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 4:10 pm
Anonymous
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Yes. I mentioned it's an UY85 and UCL82! (Full wave + Triode Pentode)

I neglected to say the heater is powered from Motor. Unfortunately UY85 and UCL82 with heater from motor was common even to some Continental Models, never mind virtually every UK model that wasn't UL84!

I don't need a schematic (the circuit is trivial even if there wasn't a gazillion similar ones with circuits), but I'm curious as to Make & Model.
I found a label loose, but likely off the deck:

Either PS 521 or RS 521 (two character space or else something 100% faded) and next line G0800 (no spaces). Looks like from blue ink rubber stamp. Possibly only to do with the BSR turntable? The two texts not even aligned.

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 5:01 pm
Refugee
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Surely is the UY85 not a half wave rectifier?
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0036.htm
It certainly looks right in the photo.

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 6:06 pm
Anonymous
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Yes, my bad,
There is nothing to drive the other diode anyway. That's why there isn't any point to a UZnn part.

 
Posted : 10/12/2013 7:28 pm
Anonymous
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Restoring it :)

The top of the lid is the only really poor part of the case. I have an idea for that. The two rear feet missing.

The front feet along with two screws on top and one screw for cover attach the amplifier / speaker panel.

Press down and twist central plastic to get at circlip to remove platter.

Other faults.
[list=1]

  • The 45/LP stylus tip looks like it's gone. 🙁 Find New stylus?[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Motor is very stiff. WD40 fixed that. I'll add some light oil later. Now correct speed! Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Idler height needed adjusting to get 78 (screw at pivot). Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Screw on tone arm for lateral position needed adjustment, arm landing about 1cm in from edge. Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Rej/Off doesn't work because the "off" switch on deck operated by automatic mechanisms has been bypassed. I wired it in again and reset the actuator and leaf springs in it. Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Both transit screws bent to nearly 15 degrees. Gently straightening them made the distortion at "deck" mounts flat! Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • 50nF 500V between Anode of Triode and Grid of Pentode very leaky. I put a 100nF 630V for now. I only have 150V 50nF (Battery Radios Don't y'know!) Fixed[/*:m:1klesaw6]
  • Small plastic panel held on with 4 panel pins around the three controls is very warped, Replacement with a replica is solution.[/*:m:1klesaw6][/list:o:1klesaw6]
  • Now plays 78s very nicely. The auto change needs a manual "rej" on some with larger centres. Is there an adjustment? Maybe some 78s are just awkward.

    So just need to get a 45/LP stylus, four feet same height (easy), touch up lid and replace panel around the controls.

    Also I should replace rather short simple figure 8 single insulated flex with double insulated flex.

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 12:03 am
    Cathovisor
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    Other faults.
    [list=1]

  • Rej/Off doesn't work because the "off" switch on deck operated by automatic mechanisms has been bypassed. I wired it in again and reset the actuator and leaf springs in it. Fixed[/*:m:3c6jmim5][/list:o:3c6jmim5]
  • But by doing that, whenever a quantity of records have finished playing, you'll be allowing the heaters of the valves to cool as the power will be disconnected from them when the deck stops. So it won't play straight away when you come back to play another record.

    It was very common in cheaper players of this kind that use the motor overwind/tap to heat the valves to leave it running all the time power was applied: the idler on a BSR UA14 does disengage from the motor shaft when it is in the "off" position so no harm will come to it when the deck has stopped.

    Now plays 78s very nicely. The auto change needs a manual "rej" on some with larger centres. Is there an adjustment? Maybe some 78s are just awkward.

    The UA14 has a standard velocity trip - if some 78s aren't tripping it it's because the mechanism is either gummed up with old oil/dirt, and is not being actuated by the run-out grooves. Some records simply do not actuate trips as they have no real run-out groove - remember, automatic record changers are relatively new compared to 78s and some trips were merely positional rather than relying upon an eccentric groove or a rapid run-out.

    The fact the landing point of the stylus was so far in initially gives me some cause for concern. In my mind I have a picture of a plastic star wheel triggering the trip; I'll have a look at the UA14 in the garage in the morning, I have to look at some radios for shipping as well as a car radio for a local market trader!

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 12:29 am
    Anonymous
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    Other faults.
    [list=1]

  • Rej/Off doesn't work because the "off" switch on deck operated by automatic mechanisms has been bypassed. I wired it in again and reset the actuator and leaf springs in it. Fixed[/*:m:34iajuge][/list:o:34iajuge]
  • But by doing that, whenever a quantity of records have finished playing, you'll be allowing the heaters of the valves to cool as the power will be disconnected from them when the deck stops. So it won't play straight away when you come back to play another record.

    Ah, if it was "contemporary" or a "new" design there would be 100% merit in what you say. But I'm restoring it to original idiocy. I see some models & makes used a separate autotransformer to do it properly.

    I agree, running the heaters of the motor on an auto off autochanger is daft. But that's how they did it!

    It's got to be about 1969 when I last worked at one of these. A very slight change on the screw at the arm base (which seems all too free to move) makes a significant change to the landing position.

    I presume there is some magic associated with the little lever on the pillar that makes it go to 3.5", 5" or 6" from centre.
    Is it?
    No flip = 3.5"
    partial flip = 5"
    "full" flip = 6"

    Some players I had (and my Sharp 45/33 single play) you have to select record size and speed. My Sharp can't auto load arm on 10" LPs! I know they are not common, but I have one. I have one 12" 78 too, but a scary thing to put on an autochanger!

    I'm quite chuffed to get this as a present from my Aunt, with my Dad paying shipping. This style of thing goes for silly money IMO (i.e. closer to £50 than £5!), but I did want to have at least one example of the genre (4 speed Auto changer simple valve amp amp transportable). The Unexpected Bakelite Philips is from her attic too. Allegedly more to come :)

    Two unexpected boxes at 8am!

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 12:53 am
    Anonymous
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    That looks like the same deck I have in my KB Rythem.
    The little metal washers which hold the centre cover of the platter in place tend to break away if the plastic is old and gone brittle, careful you don't loose them.
    I had problems playing a "stack" of records, it does not seem to like modern records even though they had a circle of raised ridges to engage with each other, and the top record slips on the one below.

    Mike

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 10:26 am
    Anonymous
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    I think it's very common?

    "Cathovisor" called it a "UA14"

    http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bsr_ua14.html

    The BSR UA15 and UA16 seem similar, but perhaps use a different cartridge?

    Still puzzled as to Make & Model of the rest of it. I see reading R&TVS that actually MOST makes/models use the separate autotransformer and many have Bass & Treble. UCL83 seems more common than UCL82. Some are PCL8x! A few are ECL8x

    This seems comprehensive but not cheap.
    http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... nstall.asp

    Also Expensive
    http://www.musonic.co.uk/cartridges-cry ... 4_431.html

    One of these might be fitted?
    http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... ategories=
    http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... ategories=

    Or even
    http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... ategories=
    http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... ategories=

    I found this too
    http://s1133.photobucket.com/user/ian27 ... sort=3&o=5

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 11:10 am
    Anonymous
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    The KB RRP20 is less "cost reduced" version. Same UA14 deck, but an ECL82, panel lamp, Bridge Metal rectifier and proper isolated mains transformer.

    This "unknown" model of mine is the bargain basement of xCL8x plus autochanger in portable cabinet.

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 12:55 pm
    Cathovisor
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    Other faults.
    [list=1]

  • Rej/Off doesn't work because the "off" switch on deck operated by automatic mechanisms has been bypassed. I wired it in again and reset the actuator and leaf springs in it. Fixed[/*:m:1esqn1hg][/list:o:1esqn1hg]
  • But by doing that, whenever a quantity of records have finished playing, you'll be allowing the heaters of the valves to cool as the power will be disconnected from them when the deck stops. So it won't play straight away when you come back to play another record.

    Ah, if it was "contemporary" or a "new" design there would be 100% merit in what you say. But I'm restoring it to original idiocy. I see some models & makes used a separate autotransformer to do it properly.

    That's just it, Michael - the original idiocy would have left the motor on/off switch bypassed! I have a Bush SRP58 portable stereo record player (transistors) that powers the amplifiers off an overwind (isolated), but as it's transistor it does indeed go off when the deck shuts off.

    I agree, running the heaters of the motor on an auto off autochanger is daft. But that's how they did it!

    It's got to be about 1969 when I last worked at one of these. A very slight change on the screw at the arm base (which seems all too free to move) makes a significant change to the landing position.

    I presume there is some magic associated with the little lever on the pillar that makes it go to 3.5", 5" or 6" from centre.
    Is it?
    No flip = 3.5"
    partial flip = 5"
    "full" flip = 6"

    Indeed it is. BSR called it their "Magidisk" selector - it presets a pawl that limits the inward movement of the arm when the change cycle is started. If you up-end the changer you'll see the stepped plate attached to the pickup.

    Cleverest in this field are the Collaro Conquest/Challenger/Studio decks, which have a friction assembly attached to the arm and "feel" the edge of the record before dropping it. Consequently it can play any size of record from 6" to 12" diameter, such as 8" Eclipse and 9" Crown. Despite this, the mechanism is very simple.

    Some players I had (and my Sharp 45/33 single play) you have to select record size and speed. My Sharp can't auto load arm on 10" LPs! I know they are not common, but I have one. I have one 12" 78 too, but a scary thing to put on an autochanger!

    IMO not a problem, especially on decks that have a 12" turntable. The Garrard "pusher" changers are very kind to records, but Garrard are a bit like Philips: if there's a simple way of doing something, they'll find a way of doing it in a complex manner. There is a cushion of air as it lands on the platter. I don't have any problem playing any of my 78rpm collection on an autochanger. The later Collaro decks are also excellent at handling records, especially as they have a constant-speed change cycle as the changer mechanism is driven at a fixed speed via a separate idler to the motor.

    I'm quite chuffed to get this as a present from my Aunt, with my Dad paying shipping. This style of thing goes for silly money IMO (i.e. closer to £50 than £5!), but I did want to have at least one example of the genre (4 speed Auto changer simple valve amp amp transportable). The Unexpected Bakelite Philips is from her attic too. Allegedly more to come :)

    Two unexpected boxes at 8am!

    Very lucky indeed!

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 1:06 pm
    Terrykc
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    ... I had problems playing a "stack" of records, it does not seem to like modern records even though they had a circle of raised ridges to engage with each other, and the top record slips on the one below ...

    Mike, that usually means that the tracking weight is far too high!

    It wasn't uncommon to find someone had increased the weight to stop a badly worn stylus jumping out of the groove (!) or 'improve' the tracking when playing cracked 78s ...!

    The worst example of the latter I ever saw was a lead cowboy fastened to the top of the arm with an elastic band ...!

    When all else fails, read the instructions

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 1:12 pm
    Cathovisor
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    I think it's very common?

    "Cathovisor" called it a "UA14"

    http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bsr_ua14.html

    The BSR UA15 and UA16 seem similar, but perhaps use a different cartridge?

    The UA16 and UA15 are similar mechanically, but were designed for BSR by Raymond Loewy Associates - very elegant machines. The UA15 and UA15SS (SS = "Super Slim") can only play six records in a stack though, not eight.

    The cartridge in yours is probably a replacement - it's an Acos GP67 that seems to have been a popular replacement for the TC8 in its day; it might have been a BSR TC8 originally. The GP 67 is mono ONLY - so please don't play stereo records with it!

    ... I had problems playing a "stack" of records, it does not seem to like modern records even though they had a circle of raised ridges to engage with each other, and the top record slips on the one below ...

    Mike, that usually means that the tracking weight is far too high!

    It wasn't uncommon to find someone had increased the weight to stop a badly worn stylus jumping out of the groove (!) or 'improve' the tracking when playing cracked 78s ...!

    The worst example of the latter I ever saw was a lead cowboy fastened to the top of the arm with an elastic band ...!

    Don't forget though that there was a problem with one Garrard deck in the mid-70s - the 2025TC. As built, the unit had a low-mass arm and consequently was designed to work with high-compliance cartridges such as the Sonotone 9TA/HC (probably the best ceramic cartridge ever made). The problem appeared when manufacturers started fitting some right old nails to them, such as the Sonotone 2509 - a high output crystal cartridge of low compliance designed for simple four-transistor amplifiers. On newer, heavily modulated discs the thing would jump badly, as indeed my SRP58 did; records that otherwise played perfectly on other record players not using this combination (e.g. BSR C141 and SC12H). Only many, MANY years later did I discover that enough noise was made by manufacturers and dealers at Garrard to address this problem.

    The solution was to increase the dynamic mass of the arm: Garrard did this by supplying a heavier metal finger-lift assembly to replace the plastic moulding originally fitted, along with a stronger spring to restore the correct tracking weight. This made the arm more suitable for use with lower-quality cartridges as it now had a higher dynamic mass, but by that time I was getting more interested in a better system and had bought a Garrard SP25 and a magnetic cartridge...

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 1:16 pm
    sideband
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    It wasn't uncommon to find someone had increased the weight to stop a badly worn stylus jumping out of the groove (!) or 'improve' the tracking when playing cracked 78s ...!

    The most popular method at the time was a 3d piece taped or glued to the pickup head...... :ccf

    Rich

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 2:32 pm
    Cathovisor
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    It wasn't uncommon to find someone had increased the weight to stop a badly worn stylus jumping out of the groove (!) or 'improve' the tracking when playing cracked 78s ...!

    The most popular method at the time was a 3d piece taped or glued to the pickup head...... :ccf

    Rich

    Pah! Someone I know has a George III 'cartwheel' penny attached to his pickup... (you know who you are, if you're reading this!)

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 2:38 pm
    Anonymous
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    Thanks!

    I think the only more basic amps are UL84 of the motor winding...

    So GP67 stylus ...

    Unless contemporaneously there would have been a Stereo compatible cartridge I'll leave it as Mono Only. After all I have a working Dual 55 (? in attic temporarily) and a JVC AL-E300 turntable and mostly listen to either CDs or 256K MP3 or 320K MP3, if not Radio.

    http://www.stylusplus.co.uk/acos-gp-67- ... 9080-p.asp
    http://www.thestyluslady.co.uk/stylus-f ... -158-p.asp

    Only Sapphire £3 + £1.50 Irish Postage
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACOS-RECORD-P ... 0950866350
    But It's never going to be used much!

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 3:21 pm
    Anonymous
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    You could be right Terry, I dont have any means of knowing what the weight is. I seem to remember I did adjust the spring to lighten it a little but maybe it needs a bit more.
    Mike

     
    Posted : 11/12/2013 4:49 pm
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