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Philips 206A

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Anonymous
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Hi
I got this Philips set for a good price, however I have to admit to not really knowing what the condition was like when I was bidding at the time. It just sounded like a good set to bid when it was described.
Having seen it now, it is in good condition other than 2 aspects, the back card panel and the dial.
I think the set is well worth saving.
Has anyone got any suggestions how I can recreate the dial with white lettering, (cheaply) other than letroset.
Thanks
Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 07/01/2013 4:22 pm
Terry
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I'm assuming it's white lettering on glass but perhaps a little sleight of hand might fool all but the most observant?

Try re-creating the scale in any way you like and then print it reversed out (white text on black) on a suitable piece of white card or paper. Make sure that the printer is in good condition with no tell-tale banding in the black.

Add backing card if necessary to stiffen it and laminate it for a gloss finish.

Place the scale behind the pointer with clear glass in front.

How does that sound?

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 07/01/2013 4:48 pm
Jamie
(@jskinner97)
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I do wonder if you could do the dial using a Vinyl Cutter? Most cut to ridiculous precision?

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Posted : 07/01/2013 4:54 pm
Terry
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If you've got one and are volunteering, Jamie, I'm sure Mike will be delighted to take you up on the offer! :=D

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 07/01/2013 5:04 pm
Anonymous
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There is heat transfer white transparent background "Water Slip/slide" decal sheets. You need a laser printer with suitable toner. You then can can soak it off the backing sheet and slide on the glass.

Also there is direct white heat transfer film used to do white text on dark T-shirts. You put sheet against Black laser print out and iron or use laminator and then peel off backing with white sticking to the melted toner. So you'd need to use that with laser compatible transparencies. I've laser printed black to transparency for Pye 39JH/E and DAC10 and just taped the transparency to the rear of the glass.

I do mean to try the heat foil (white, gold, copper, silver, metallic R, G & B available) and also the "water slide" materials. There is also a "water slide" that isn't white, it's just goes what ever colour you print (so white is impossible), different version for ink jet and colour laser.

My local graphic/Architect shop can do A3 colour laser transparency from USB stick for €5! So I mean to try that some time for anything not needing white or metallic. Two layers transparency can be combined of course.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/01/2013 5:06 pm
Anonymous
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There is heat transfer white transparent background "Water Slip/slide" decal sheets. You need a laser printer with suitable toner. You then can can soak it off the backing sheet and slide on the glass.

I have used inkjet waterslide before but it was noticeable when finished because it never stuck invisibly to the glass dial. It was fairly easy to do, because there was no white printing, apart from the original artwork, which took ages. I then masked it off and sprayed the back with pale cream paint to simulate the original dial. From a distance it looks OK but close up you can see where the transfer has not stuck smooth and flush to the glass. I think I know what went wrong, I sprayed too many waterproofing coats of clear lacquer on the waterslide and this stiffened it too much leaving the imprint of the imperfections of the backing paper in the waterslide.
You can see this first effort with inkjet waterslide here.

I understand Lazer printer is better but when I was at work I was always too worried in case the lazer waterslide fused on the drum, that would take a little explaining with a GEC radio dial and Vidor logos.

I am going to ask the guy who prints who makes my clubs annual handbook if he knows anybody who can print white on glass. It cant be too difficult nowadays what with computers and 3D printing.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/01/2013 6:21 pm
Brian Cuff
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Any company that does silk screening can do white on glass. I'm not sure, but they could probably make a screen from a laser printed OHP film. My company always used a photo-plotter but that was for production item control panels. If there is more than one colour, then a film for each colour is required but registration may be a problem due to printing inaccuracies - make sure that all four corners are marked on all films in order to line the colours up during the screening process.

Forum Memorial

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Posted : 07/01/2013 7:09 pm
Anonymous
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I have replaced a few bits of bare wiring and sorted out the issue of the rectifier valve pins not making contact. It looks promising as I had a crackle from the speaker but HT was struggling to get over 50 volts so I am now attempting to reform the main HT capacitors slowly.
The main electrolytic capacitor and all the valves are relatively new. Ha ha, I hear you say, it depends on what you call relative.
Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 09/01/2013 1:43 pm
Anonymous
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Try re-creating the scale in any way you like and then print it reversed out (white text on black) on a suitable piece of white card or paper. Make sure that the printer is in good condition with no tell-tale banding in the black.

Terry, I am liking this idea more and more, I am going to give it a try and see how my printer manages ragarding the banding.

thanks
Mike

P.S.
The capacitors are up to 170v now, they have to go up to about 300v. I had to give them a break to cool down, they seem a lot happier now not getting warm again. Currently consuming about 2 ma at 170v.

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Topic starter Posted : 09/01/2013 9:04 pm
Andrewausfa
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As another alternative to printing in white, some dials came in three colours. This is the one on my 206A which I suspect I might be able to scan for you if required.

Andrew

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Posted : 10/01/2013 12:38 am
Anonymous
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Hi Andrew
Thats interesting, I must say your dial looks much better than the one I have just finished drawing.

I would be very grateful if you could scan your colour one at 600 dpi.
I will pm my email address to you.

This is the B&W dial I have just drawn. (it took about 8 hours out of today but it was better than watching TV)

I have not checked costs yet but I think it is going to be expensive to get printed. My printer is creating bands across the black, and following a closer look I also think that if I placed the paper dial behind the pointer the string may show up as well.

Thanks
Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 10/01/2013 2:12 am
Anonymous
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I wish I had kept the scanner for the Stencil duplicator. you put original on one half of drum and blank stencil on the other half. It then used high votlage driven by photo cell. As the drum spun at high speed the photocell and "spark cutter" advanced on slowly turning screw.

One could have copied black text/image and then taped the stencil on glass with maybe a screen print frame to hold it and then maybe sponged sprayed or brushed any cvolour paint. Arrghh.. Why did I dump it?

Because it was 1.5 m + long, about 0.7m deep and about 0.3m high!

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Topic starter Posted : 10/01/2013 2:32 am
Terry
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Oh gosh! I'd forgotten about those! 'Electronic Stencils', I think they used to be known as.

Never seemed to be as clear as a direct cut stencil, possibly because of the 'scanning lines' but, if anyone still has one, could work well for this as the paint would be inclined to flow slightly and fill the gaps.

The only problem might be forcing the paint through the stencil, which was designed to pass only a small amount of ink.

Perhaps it would be possible to make a stencil with a more suitable screen?

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 10/01/2013 12:52 pm
Anonymous
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Yes, it's called Screen Printing :D. I used to make industrial control panels where they would pay the £100 setup costs even though only getting 1 to 5 panels printed. Letraset wears off.

Print Lith mask(s)
Expose blue Roll on UV sensitive film & develop
coat screen with Roll on UV sensitive film
dry
Peel off backing
Print as many panels as desired.
I used nylon screens.
The Thick Film Hybrid makers used extremely expensive fine stainless steel to screen print special conductive inks, resistors and insulation layers.

Good Commercial Screen printers can print glass white, metallic, multiple colours or 4 to 8 Process full colour. The killer is set up cost. As cheap to knock out 100 as 1

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Topic starter Posted : 10/01/2013 2:52 pm
Anonymous
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The capacitor for this radio has finished reforming It reached 270v on a 300v feed in series with about 12k ohms and was just about drawing 2.5ma. I fitted it back in the set and slowly turned up the power. At about 80v ht we had a working radio with Gold playing away. I left it for a while like that. It is now working well on full voltage and the HT is 235 on V3. (should be 250v)
I don’t think that’s bad for a 72 year old radio, the only component I had changed at this stage was the audio coupling capacitor to the OP pentode V3.

I have started replacing all the brittle wiring and working my way through the black capacitors. I am having a difficult time. Has anybody else experienced problems with the solder used on these old Philips sets. It seems to have a higher melting point and goes crumbly. I wondered if it was the new batch of “Draper” solder I got for Christmas, maybe it was not 60/40 as it said on the packet.
I have tried sucking all the old solder off a few of the connections and where I have done this the new joints are nice and shiny when cooled as they should be. But leaving the old solder on it cools with a crystalline look. I went back to using some 60/40 0.5mm solder and the result was just the same.
Has any one else had problems with the solder in these sets. I’ve stopped for a break and a rethink

Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 10/01/2013 6:50 pm
Anonymous
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Hi
I have fitted the new “colour” dial and I am reasonably pleased with the results. The colours were not as bold as I had hoped for but I guess it makes it look old by having them faded.

I had my drawing of the dial printed on a colour laser printer onto laser waterslide. It was not easy finding a shop willing to do this. The professional printers wanted a minimum order of £80 and some shops were concerned at putting a waterslide through their machine saying it would be expensive if it was not compatible.
I found one in Southend and they charged 80p for the one sheet of A4 doing a B&W test print to make sure they had the “correct side up”.
The waterslide went on easily, and it slipped and slide around until I was happy with the position. Then I used a soft tissue to gently wipe water from the centre to the edges. It was fairly stretchy by now and I had to smooth out one or 2 wrinkles that I pulled into the thin film, but they all went.
I gave it about 3 days to harden off and then wiped with a lint free cloth prior to spraying with clear lacquer onto the waterslide side to help protect it. The waterslide had a slight frosted effect on it but when the lacquer went on it went perfectly clear.
Unfortunately when I tested the area around where I sprayed the spill over was all dry so I tested the edge of the dial and that was nice and dry. The trouble was the glass was only just off level so the lacquer tended to drain more to one end and when I touched this it was still wet and it pulled. Not to worry to much as the damaged area is now hidden behind the case at the top.

I managed to reuse the speaker cloth and pealed it off slowly and stuck it back on so the small damaged area was at the top and almost hidden, what was still visible was masked by the overhang because the baffle board is recessed.

It is all fitted back together and given a final polish. I sat back and thought “yes that is a keeper”. So I now have a Vintage Philips in my collection.

p.s. Update.
I reformed the electrolytic capacitor for over 30 hours and the residual current it was taking had fallen to less than 2ma. It seemed to be working well with no heat gain after about 3 hours of use.
Today I have noticed that there is a brown liquid coming out of the bottom of the aluminium can, so it will have to be removed and restuffed. I now believe this capacitor is not the original one as there were 2 separate ones and the one fitted to this set is a dual capacitor..
Something for tomorrow.

Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 29/01/2013 12:09 am
Andrewausfa
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Well done on the dial Mike, it looks great. I know it's hard, monitor calibration and all that but the colours seem very close to the one on mine.

Andrew

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Posted : 29/01/2013 12:17 am
Anonymous
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Hi Andrew
I tried to emulate your one as much as possible.

I forgot to mention there is one other thing to do to this set apart from sorting out the electrolytic.

This is the back, it was as soft as anything, and a new piece gave way and ended up on the floor each time I handled it.
I have given it a good soaking with dilute PVA and allowed it to dry for about 2 weeks or so between 2 plastic sheets compressed flat by a melamine board and all the transformers I could find. It now feels much stronger but looks pretty rubbish still.

The plan is to try and fill the ugly hole with card of the same thickness
(and make the mend invisible, ha ha. :O )

I will let you know how it turns out.

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Topic starter Posted : 29/01/2013 12:27 am
Anonymous
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Hi
This is the same back panel as it is now, can you see the repair.
I am quite pleased with the method I used and the way it turned out.
I will do a pictorial post on its progress to this stage a bit later.

Mike

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Topic starter Posted : 30/01/2013 6:28 pm
Terry
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... can you see the repair ...

No Mike, I can't! There are some areas that look a different colour to others - possibly a difference between matt and shiny, or just the camera - but it doesn't in any way coincide with the damaged area!

Absolutely excellent!

Looking forward to seeing how you did it ...!

When all else fails, read the instructions

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Posted : 30/01/2013 10:09 pm
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