Trade Chat City & Guilds Radio & Television Engineering

Thanks for the welcome. I do miss the radio& tv repair trade: but I'm sure we all do.

Regarding C&G 224, which I did as part of my apprenticeship via day-release (first year) then in subsequent years as day-release+twilight+multiple evening classes:

Our college (Kingsway Technical College) had two streams of students for C&G 224. In parallel with us in TV, there was also the industrial electronics class. 

I decided early-on in my college days that I was going to all the industrial course content as well (the classes and all the support materials were excellent). The department supported me in doing that (I think for Part 1 and Part 2).

I got on so well with both the Radio& TV and Industrial Electronics strands that at Part 3 it was agreed that I was also allowed to study *all* (I think every single one?) of the different specialist options at Part 3 level.

I managed to get notes/overheads from other colleges that offered the specialist options as courses (KTC were really helpful) and I subsequently sat and passed all the C&G exams (that was a seriously-heavy few weeks, I can tell you!!)

I even managed to be awarded the C&G Part3 top marks medal for Instrumentation & Testing, which I was extremely proud about.

To this day, I've never met anyone else that was as motivated/daft to do this, other than myself.

I was just the right age/attitude/timing to manage it (before marriage/children/career changes).

I'll try and dig-out my certificates (they are somewhere safe- as is my 224 medal).

Anyway: interesting to be able to share that bit of early-80s history with someone who knows what an excellent course it was!

I completed the City & Guilds Course 48 same as many did on here, 5 years evening classes at Southend Tech, Final exams in 1970 inc Colour TV Principles and RTEEB practical Tests and then later the first RTEEB Certificate of Competence Colour TV Servicing practical at Bristol Skillcentre in 1976.

Ironically, I then became a Skillcentre Instructor in 1977 teaching Radio TV and Electronics Servicing. This "TOPS" course was 48 weeks duration, called Accelerated Vocational Training, it covered the whole C&G Course 48 syllabus inc colour TV (50% Theory/50% Practical work) resulting in taking the C&G Final Exams and RTEEB Practical Tests. I used the G.N Patchett series of books and also the US "Common Core Series" of books on basic electricity and electronics. There were minimum entry requirements, (most trainees were previously unemployed and paid a Training Allowance) a basic maths test at the Job Centre, but phase testing was carried out at regular intervals. Trainees once qualified were expected to get employment in the trade. So thats my take on a career in R&TV Servicing.

Anyone remember the two handed "Karate Chop" needed the get the top off the Philips V2000 VCR?

What an interesting thread of all those that have shared their personal lives as Radio and Television (Engineers) service people.

I would like to add & expand on some of those RTV qualifications

In 1962, I started a 5-year apprenticeship with a small Mum & Pop (hole in the wall) Radio & Television shop that sold Radio's, audio equipment & TV's. When I started there was just me the greenhorn apprentice (not knowing what a sync pulse or a left-handed screwdriver was), one inside tech and one outside tech. The time I left it was a technical staff of 10 that included 3 apprentices. 

In September 1962 I started the 5 year C&G course 48, day release 9am - 9pm, exams in June consisting of 2 papers, Theory & Techniques. At year 3 the Intermediate C&G with the practical Radio Exam, then year 5 the final written exams together with a practical TV exam - fault-finding.

History of C&G Radio Television courses & exams.

When I started my apprenticeship the inside tech had two separate certificates - one was Radio Service Final certificate & one Final Television servicing certificate, which by 1967 did not exist, that looked completely different than the ones I had. It wasn't till 1996 when I started getting involved deeper with C&G at Giltspur St, London is when I had to look back in time on the evolution doing research more on the vocational qualifications specific to Radio & TV servicing.

For the forum, from a book written by 

‘City and Guilds’ examinations
A complex and evolving pattern
D.E. Wheatley

in the following link page 26

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/03057875980000041

you will see that before course 48 Radio & Television servicing

course 53 was Radio Servicing Certificate

course 54 was Television servicing Certificate

this sort of explained what I had seen in the old tech's certificates.

There was the change in 1965 to Radio Trades Examination board (RTEB) to Radio Television and Electronics Examination Board (RTEEB) formed by the Society of Electronic & Radio Technicians which would be the certification that candidates would get after passing their intermediate (Part 1) as well as the Final (part 2) exams with practical.

Many of you would have continued on to get the Colour Television Principles as well as the FM Radio certificate from the 272 course.

With a Final RTEEB certificate + C&G Colour Television principles + FM Radio, (via membership with SERT), the Engineering Council would have registered you as a Technician Engineer.

Others may have done the Radio Television & Electronics Technicians 272 conversion course. The C&G course ended its life after 10 years of existence changing to 222 Mechanics course & the 272 Technicians course  which wound up to the 224 course

In 1967 after completing my apprenticeship & C&G exams I emigrated to Canada working for Philips electronics for 17 years. I continued studying electrical/electronics engineering till age 50.

I'd be pleased to answer any questions.

Edit: I was inspired by G.N Patchett book series that carried my through 5 years.

Telecommunications Technicians course 49 (previously course 50) also underwent changes between 1957 - 2000

anyone do the C&G course 47 Electronics Servicing?

Posted by: @crustytv

How many of you who did the course, took the exam, still have your certificate? I wonder who holds the earliest and who holds one of the last issued, it  would be interesting to find out.

kept all my C&G certificates from 1963 through to 1992 from also taking several external exams between 1967 & 1992 going to the UK to sit as well as proctored exams in Canada.

from mid 70's till early 90's I collected several past exam papers from the Telecom Technicians 49 as well several 222, 272, 224. I would send & pay for them every year. Just something I did, also see if I could have passed those exams years after.

about 10 years ago I looked for them to send to crustytv, but unfortunately they got chucked out from us moving house

@syncpulse
I have my certs, some posted on this forum, Bolton Tech were using ULCI exams for the first 3 years, I took the first 2 then moved to Wigan for the intermediate C&G, Final and Colour, course 48, last exam in 1969 I think it was.

Married life and children got in the way after that and I didn’t really need any more, 10 years later I was out of the trade to a much more well paid and interesting job traveling UK and Europe.

All the papers are now here if folk have not seen them covering 1969 - 1983

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/vintage-electronics-blog-forum/city-guilds-radio-television/

Posted by: @crustytv

All the papers are now here if folk have not seen them covering 1969 - 1983

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/vintage-electronics-blog-forum/city-guilds-radio-television/

Help please.

I clicked on the link to the exam papers & nothing.

How do I view them?

Posted by: @nuvistor

@syncpulse
I have my certs, some posted on this forum, Bolton Tech were using ULCI exams for the first 3 years, I took the first 2 then moved to Wigan for the intermediate C&G, Final and Colour, course 48, last exam in 1969 I think it was. 

that's right, mine were also ULCI.

on this topic, anyone can add any points if the 222 Mechanics course was as rigorous as course 48 ... was it better, worse or seen as a higher or lower qualification?

and then comparing course 224.

Was course 272 Radio Television Technicians with the added Maths & Principles looked at in the trade as a higher qualification to course 48 in a similar way to course 49 Telecommunication Technicians.

footnote: RTEEB Radio Television Servicing certificate vs Radio Television Technician seems to be that one is a craft, the other a higher level 'Technician' comparing it to ONC & HNC

Posted by: @syncpulse

Help please.

I clicked on the link to the exam papers & nothing.

How do I view them?

You should be able to view them now, as you've made it to 5 posts, that unlocks the ability to access "private messaging" and some restricted areas such as the C&G papers.

sorted ... thanks

Posted by: @crustytv

Finally after countless years searching, I have managed to obtain a very rare original 837 course-book from the 1971/72/73 for the City & Guilds Radio, Television and Electronics Servicing course.

Once arrived I will scan and make available via the data library. Hopefully this is the start of finding the course material that seems to have all but disappeared.

did you get this & place it in the data library - if so, a link to it please.

the 800 series courses/syllabus were for overseas/outside the UK colleges/candidates.

https://www.cityandguilds.com/international

again from memory, the largest group using/taking the 800 series courses are from Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Caribbean, including Ireland

Without seeing the 837 syllabus I think that it may be a mix of 222/224.

Having had old syllabus/exam papers (that I should not have chucked) C&G had 800 series courses that mirrored OND & HND but only offered outside UK, as well as the original Telecommunications Technician Diploma & Advanced Diploma.

Hi John,

Regardless of whether you're using a Phone, tablet, PC or Mac, you should see at the very top of every page, six bubbles. The first of these being the private members' data library, clicking on it will take you there, and you should find the C&G category.

p.s.
Access is not normally granted to new members until they've been with us a while and demonstrated commitment to our group. However, I have on this occasion made an exception to that rule.

@crustytv, on the 837 syllabus, found it, looked through it & it does look similar to a combined 222/224 - thanks again.

Good morning and thank you for allowing me to join. I'm only in my 50s. The reason for requesting to join is so that i can hopefully do some research about my father's life between 1962 and 1972. He came to London from Nigeria in 1962 at the age of 25. He studied for and completed the City and Guilds Course in London (i assume it was course 48), and became a radio and television engineer. He worked during the day and studied at night. While studying, he worked for Philips in Croydon and DER - my mother said.  Which college could he have studied at? Croydon College, Willesden? He was living in Balham at the time. He drove so had a company car/van as I remember him repairing, delivering and collecting TVs. What type of TV's would they have been? Anyway, when he completed his course, he returned to Nigeria with his family in 1972. Unfortunately he became ill and passed before the end of that year. I never got to ask him about his life. So I'm hoping to piece together the sort of life he would have had, living and working in London around that time.  he was a happy man who integrated with his colleagues and played in firm football matches (I was told).

Any info, anecdotes from this group would be greatly appreciated as i'm hope to compile a booklet for his grandchildren about his life in London.

Hi Femi, welcome aboard.

We have an ex Philips engineer here, his name is Richard, @sideband he worked for Philips for many years. He still lives in Croydon, I suspect he may be able to help fill in some of the blanks about that time and in particular Philips.

As for what TV's your father might have worked on, have a look at the brochure section of this site. Either click on "Radios-TV" in the menu above, or click on the bloke up top carrying all the gear.

Here are some examples of TV's from D|E|R and Philips that your father may well have worked on. We also have ex D|E|R engineers here too.

Black & White TV

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/der-bw-tvs/

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/early-1970s-monochrome-philips/

Colour TV

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/der/

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/philips/

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/philips-g8/

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/the-g11-project/

@crustytv Thank you.  I will have a look. 

@cathoderay 

City and Guilds have an Archive search service, if you have some details they may be able to supply a replacement.

You can only ask, nothing lost in trying.

https://archiveservices.cityandguilds.com/CreateOrder?displayLearnerFileDialog=False&displayQualificationFileDialog=False

@nuvistor Thank you. I will give it a go. 

Thank you for allowing me to join. I studied the City and Guilds Radio,TV and Electronics Technicians (272) course at Bridgnorth FE College. I don't think it was offered in many colleges. I think Matthew Boulton in Birmingham also did it. I have some old exam papers which I could upload but sometimes the attached circuit diagrams are a bit larger than A4 but I might have a go.

For most of the time I was employed by Decca Radio and TV in Bridgnorth before working in the retail trade eventually at Granada TV Rental. I left the TV trade in 1982 by which time the reliability of TV's was increasing. I continued in related work.

I feel that the C&G radio and TV courses gave people a good grounding to be able to adapt & work in other areas if employers were enlightened enough to give people a chance.

My old FE college at Bridgnorth has long gone. Last time I was in the area an Aldi supermarket was on the site!

I've uploaded some of my certificates for anyone intersted.

Hi Henry,

Welcome aboard, and thanks for the above insight into your training and a look at the certificates. If you've not followed the link to the actual exam papers, you might like to have a look, no doubt it will bring back a few memories.

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/vintage-electronics-blog-forum/city-guilds-radio-television/