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Trade Chat Lost (and found) Morecambe and Wise episode - film or VT?

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Alex728
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As I don't watch linear telly these days (and am not even sure how to stream ITV without handing over more personal data than I'd want to) I missed this, but I'm curious from the news reports as to whether what was discovered was film or videotape (none of the mainstream media reports are clear about this) - surely it would be easy to view (even with the naked eye) what was on film (and it might have some slate after the leader) and I always thought was usually stored on cores (in a film can) rather than spools - the description here sounds like some form of videotape -it suggests that Graham Morecambe handed this over to somewhere with equipment where they could attempt to play it back, plus it would be unusual to keep cans of unexposed (or exposed) film which clearly contains no picture..

Anyone here managed to see this show (or maybe might even know more about the format of what was discovered)?

"I got in there and came across five large canisters with spools in them.

"Four of them were blank or damaged, but the other one had a BBC stamp on it."

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-57989461

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Topic starter Posted : 28/07/2021 11:23 pm
Nuvistor
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@alex728 

I didn’t see this, another who watches little TV, I don’t have ITV streaming account either.

Reading the article, which as you say is short on detail, it does state “film in a canister”, if that description is correct many programmes were transferred to 16mm film for export. It saved expensive standard conversion and film was much cheaper than video tape. The 16mm film would be easy to use as material in any country.

In fact many drama programs were made on 16mm film, I am nearly sure programmes like Morse were 16mm film.

 

Has to being able to view the film by hand, possible but not that easy, the picture area on 16mm film is quite small.

Hopefully Cathovisor will see the thread, his long experience in programme making and transmission will probably shed more light.

 

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Posted : 29/07/2021 8:04 am
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mfd70
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I saw it, it was quite good but not very much of the actual programme was shown, it was a film canister found by Gary Morecambe (Eric's son) in the attic of his study. Looks like a B/W telerecording of a 1970 colour show maybe for export or review. The programme didn't cover any technical details or if the film was remastered, just what looked like some telecine operator stock shots. I hope the programme can be shown in its entirety at some point, maybe even colour recovery may be possible.

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Posted : 29/07/2021 12:23 pm
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Alex728
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I wonder if the "blank" film was sepmag stock? Would make more sense for that to be kept (but equally likely the sound and picture stock got mixed up or it had deteriorated). It seems Gary (not Graham, I made a mistake in the first post) Morecambe is currently a film director so at least its very likely he found suitable facilities that would be able to process this archive material.. 

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Topic starter Posted : 29/07/2021 10:36 pm
irob2345
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Anyone know if the beeb made many colour telerecordings? I can recall seeing (many years ago) what looked like colour telerecording. Commonly used in movie theatres for commercials before film was phased out, quality was variable.

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Posted : 30/07/2021 7:09 am
Nuvistor
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@irob2345 

By colour telerecording do you mean VTR to film stock? 

Apologies if the meaning is obvious, probably me being a bit slow this morning.

 

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Posted : 30/07/2021 10:53 am
Cathovisor
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Hi Frank, 

Telerecording was literally pointing a film camera at a picture monitor - sometimes the monitors had "spot wobble" to minimise line structure appearing on the film.

The only show I remember being regularly "telerecorded" was "Blue Peter", back in the early 80s.

See https://missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/5348/late-blue-peter-telerecordings

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Posted : 30/07/2021 1:09 pm
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irob2345
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Cathovisor's explanation on Telerecording is not entirely inaccurate but it was a lot more complicated than that.

In the US and Australia the films were known as "kinescopes" or just "kines". For B&W, the image was reversed on the monitor so that the resultant negative film, when developed, could be used immediately without needing to go through the normal intermediate step of contact printing.

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Posted : 30/07/2021 2:53 pm
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RichardFromMarple
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@irob2345 

It was common to process filmed news reports as negatives so their could quickly be transmitted.

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Posted : 30/07/2021 10:41 pm
mfd70
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@richardfrommarple 

I'm sure film inserts for news were on reversal commag ?

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Posted : 31/07/2021 11:25 pm
RichardFromMarple
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@mfd70 You're probably right.

I once heard it was common to play the negatives through a telecine & electronically reverse then.

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Posted : 01/08/2021 11:17 am
Alex728
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An online friend of mine from USA who runs a makerspace obtained load of 16mm telerecordings of some "space age" TV programme for kids as well as a B&H Filmosound modified to work as a telecine (he is preserving and digitising the recordings), and all the film is negative stock (its reversed and corrected for brightness/gamma via his software)

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Topic starter Posted : 03/08/2021 5:43 pm
Sundog
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Posted by: @irob2345

Anyone know if the beeb made many colour telerecordings?

If you mean did they point a monochrome film camera at a colour CRT, the answer is yes but I doubt it was a regular thing.

I watched a telecine transfer of one of these where the reproduced subcarrier was triggering a colour display on the monitor causing flashes of colour - some of them correct! I believe we had to post-process the video to get rid of the colour.

This raises the old chestnut of whether burst is needed to reproduce colour. Some systems were considered that put the chroma through a limiter to produce a reference subcarrier, and although it worked, I don't think anyone was crazy enough to use it in manufacture.

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Posted : 23/11/2021 9:48 pm
ntscuser
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Posted by: @sundog

I watched a telecine transfer of one of these where the reproduced subcarrier was triggering a colour display on the monitor causing flashes of colour - some of them correct!

Wasn't that system recently used to restore colour to an old series of Doctor Who?

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Posted : 24/11/2021 6:41 am
Nuvistor
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Information on colour recovery from the dot crawl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_recovery

 

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Posted : 24/11/2021 8:26 am
Sundog
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Posted by: @ntscuser

Wasn't that system recently used to restore colour to an old series of Doctor Who?

I believe so, but ours was something far less prestigious, so unfortunately didn't warrant that kind of attention.

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Posted : 24/11/2021 9:26 am
WayneD
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Looks like the Morecambe and Wise episode was black and white film and it's been fully restored into colour and will be shown over Christmas!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/long-lost-episode-morecambe-wise-25492510.amp

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Posted : 27/11/2021 8:43 pm
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Sundog
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@wayned Well it depends on one's taste and generation but I will certainly look out for it (as I fit both).

As long as it has all the right colours and, in the right order!

Thank you for the info.

John

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Posted : 29/11/2021 7:22 pm
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PYE625
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Whether in colour or not, I will very much like to watch it.

It has all the right colours.... but not neccessarily in the right order !  😋 

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Posted : 29/11/2021 7:55 pm
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Katie Bush
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Posted by: @pye625

Whether in colour or not, I will very much like to watch it.

It has all the right colours.... but not neccessarily in the right order !  😋 

"I'll give you that.... Sunshine!"

Poor old "Andrew Preview" he didn't half suffer at the hands of these two!

 

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Posted : 29/11/2021 8:08 pm
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