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Memorabilia THOMSON Television & Video; Brochure

 
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

To further extend the brochure section of the website, I've acquired a Thomson brochure. Not a manufacturer that's really my cup of tea, but nonetheless, these perhaps warrant a place in the section as there's very little out there. Hopefully as I add extend the section, it will if not already, become a useful resource for folk to enjoy.

The brochure covers ICC3, 3.5 & 4. Also, many of the VCR offerings of the time. Which leads me on to that question, what year, as the brochure does not state, and I can only guess at late 80s. I suspect this one might tickle the interest of R2B (Baz).

I'll get it fully scanned and uploaded later today, some wood grain sets I'd not ever seen before

20211018 142611
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Topic starter Posted : 18/10/2021 2:39 pm
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crustytv
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Full brochure has now been scanned and added to the brochure's section of the website. Short-cut here

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Topic starter Posted : 18/10/2021 3:55 pm
jcdaze
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@crustytv I going to guess that the brochure is from 1984/5 only because the VHS C camcorder looks like a clone of the JVC GR-C1 which featured in Back to the future (1984). The VHS machines also look like JVC clones. 

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Posted : 18/10/2021 4:57 pm
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Red_to_Black
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The circuit diagram for the ICC4 I have is dated 1985, the B&O version of the ICC3 was on sale between 1985 and 1988, the Ferguson/Thorn version of the ICC5(which may be slightly later than the original Thomson version) was introduced about 1988 or thereabouts, I might have a copy of the ICC3.5 version but don't know of any other badged up sets (apart from Thomson themselves) that used this chassis other than possibly Nordmende and maybe Telefunken.

Ps. even some of the later ICC5 and IKC2 sets by Thomson, Telefunken and Nordemende looked like those in the brochure with woodgrained cabinets and 7 segment digital display's, the Ferguson versions looked much more modern in comparison, indeed the Thorn ICC5 on screen graphics/text board was custom designed (jointly ?) by Thorn as it had a PC XXXX number as opposed to Thomsons own numbering system. 

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Posted : 18/10/2021 7:59 pm
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Red_to_Black
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Even more confusing was Nordmende used a different chassis designation from its orginal equivalent  ICC number that it was based on such as F15 for the ICC5, there were quite significant differences of course, Telefunken used a three digit system for the same such as a TFK 615 etc,,etc. quite confusing, the sets themselves were very loosely based on the corresponding equivalent ICC chassis, this may have been prior to rationalisation by the Thomson parent company.

It wasn't until the advent of the ICC7/8/9 series that features became standard across the board so to speak, then of course there were the French designed ICC5 IMC (Interactive Menu Control) version which was very different and more futuristic again towards the end of the ICC5 production run.

The Thomson, TFK and Nordmende versions prior to this always looked old fashioned and dated compared to the Thorn sets despite having names like Futura for TFK, and Galaxy by Nordmende, having said that Thorn tended to strip out all of the multi-standard parts of the chassis out unlike their European cousins.

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Posted : 18/10/2021 8:27 pm
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crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Fantastic info Baz, 👍  I knew you'd have a wealth of background info to provide on all this 👍 

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Topic starter Posted : 18/10/2021 8:56 pm
Red_to_Black
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Some of the European Thomson IKC2 models used a 110 degree tube with the EW circuitry which we never saw as badged Ferguson, also some stereo (not Nicam) versions, although David Boynes (Fernsehe) did once mention a Ferguson model 59P7B that was withdrawn by Thorn before it entered the market that used presumably a 110 degree IKC2 chassis ? as opposed to the usual 59P7A ICC5 version we commonly saw, I never ever seen one though, we did see a number of Thomson badged sets that used a 110 degree tube fitted with the IKC2 chassis.

I have somewhere a list of Nordmende F XX chassis numbers with the corresponding equivalent ICC type number which I will post if I can find it, I did only have a partial list of the Telefunken, Saba and Brandt versions, again if I can find it.

The VCRs got a bit more confusing as the early FV models (as opposed to Thorns 3VXX 89XX models) some were pure JVC made, some had Thomson circuitry with a JVC deck FV30,31, one was Thomson circuitry with a Moulinex deck FV32, and latterly after the JT2 venture were a mix of either Toshiba or Thomson circuitry with Toshiba/Thomson decks depending on model and range.

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Posted : 18/10/2021 11:04 pm
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Jayceebee
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Hi Baz, at D.E.R. some 59P7B models were accidently released into the field and we were at first instructed to remove them on sight. It soon became apparent that a significant number were in circulation and were told repair any that failed. Actually I found them more reliable than the 90 degree models probably down to the larger cabinets and reduced internal temperatures.

Unfortunately the 90 degree version of the IKC2 had a design issue in that they would trip on high volume peaks. The fix was to reduce the value of the current sensing resistor in the emitter of the chopper transistor. Unfortunately it wasn't a 100% cure and in some sets after the mod the sound of a loud explosion would lead to a loud pop inside the set when the transistor was overloaded and failed.

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Posted : 19/10/2021 9:00 pm
Red_to_Black
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The first Thorn/Ferguson IKC2 set model 41P3 did resemble certain Nordmende and Telefunken sets of the time, more modern looking than those in the brochure but still rather plain and bland (older fashioned),  rather than any Thorn cabinets of this period which were of a much more modern style. I am fairly sure the Nordmende portables of this period were re-named Nogal alongside various Galaxy models, as far as I can recall TFK reserved the Futura models used as only for larger screen sets, but then again we never saw any TFK portables from this era, so not a 100% sure here.

The second Thorn/Ferguson IKC2 set model A51F more closely resembled the Thorn versions of the ICC7 sets of the time such that ICC7 model A51N looked almost identical, models A59F (ICC7) and A59N (ICC8) were also very similar in style, almost identical in looks, only larger of course, and a lot more modern looking but nothing like the 41P3. The A51N ICC7 being Nicam stereo whilst the IKC2 A51F was mono.

Thorn/Ferguson only really released these two IKC2 models mainstream in the UK, models 41P3 and A51F, three if you count the very rare and elusive 59P7B as discussed earlier.

The later B prefixed models of the ICC7 & ICC8 series were different again, slightly more subtle and rounded rather than the more angular A models mentioned above.

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Posted : 20/10/2021 10:01 pm
Red_to_Black
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As an aside, two models in the Ferguson range stick out to me at this point in time, the earlier ICC5 model 68K4 and the IKC2 41P3, these two models were styled totally different to the rest of the Ferguson range of the time, in fact they didn't resemble any real Thorn influence at all styling wise.

Anyone care to add anything to this aspect? 

I tend to think these two sets were more styled in the Thomson/Nordmende/TFK style of the time rather than the UK arm of Ferguson/Thorn influence.

Open to suggestions?

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Posted : 20/10/2021 10:23 pm
Jayceebee
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I need a picture to remind me of the 41P3 but the 68K4 did seem more "continental". The biggest drawback with it was due to the extra weight of the Super Planar CRT they didn't travel well and many cabinets were found to be damaged when unboxed.

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Posted : 20/10/2021 10:49 pm
Red_to_Black
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Hi John,

The 41P3 was just styled like the 68k4 without the side speakers only a lot smaller, the speaker grill being a bar alongside/the bottom of the crt, a pretty much a non-descript plain portable really.

It was actually better made and felt higher quality wise than the rest of the Ferguson range of the time, just a bit bland and plain, a lot less plasticy than the TX range of portables if you know what I mean, it just felt more top end.

Incidentally I found some of my Nordmende, Saba etc. notes so will post (tomorrow now) some chassis details.

I also found an ICC2 manual (no date though) an ICC3 dated 1983, an ICC 3.5 and 3.6 dated 1984. 

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Posted : 20/10/2021 11:10 pm
RichardFromMarple
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Quite a stylish range, though wood grain was a little dated by the mid 1980s.

It's not surprising that most of the range had Scart sockets, some other manufacturers were slow to fit these to their sets, especially on the smaller ones.

I don't remember Thomson being a common brand, though Argos had quite a few of their later CRT sets around the turn of the Millennium.

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Posted : 21/10/2021 9:29 am
Red_to_Black
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Posted by: @richardfrommarple

 

I don't remember Thomson being a common brand, though Argos had quite a few of their later CRT sets around the turn of the Millennium.

That was because Thomson consumer electronics were mainly concentrated in continental Europe, being French owned (French government owned a significant share) and particularly in France, when they bought out Nordmende and Telefunken they then had a significant German presence too.

They did not have any really large dealerships or any meaningful presence in the UK at the time, there were probably a handful of smaller dealers/importers in the whole of the UK at this time.

Ironically it was Thorn that brought the most sets to the UK and were probably Thomsons largest Dealer in the UK!

After Thomson bought the Ferguson brand from Thorn we started to get a lot more Thomson stuff in the UK all badged up under the Ferguson brand from about 1989 onwards as Ferguson did have a large presence in the UK then, after Thomson changed their own name from from Thomson Consumer Electronics to Thomson Multimedia (mid to late 90's) they also started selling a lot more goods under their own original brand too.

Thomson was actually made up of several major parts, the consumer goods part and the defence/military parts were the two major ones, there were other parts such as medical (scanners and X-ray machines as well as some electron microscopes), and they were also into satellite (the ones orbiting Earth kind) electronics, as well as developing their own ICs and chip fab plants, CRTs etc..etc.. .

Anyway the consumer electronics side was heavily loss making and subsidised by the French govt. (French tax payers) this was in part a job retention scheme in France. The defence side was very profitable apparently, later the French govt. wanted to split the company up and sell off the loss making half and after much political wrangling and convoluted buyouts/sales and name changes to both halves of the company this did eventually happen and the last I heard the Chinese ended up with a large part part of the consumer electronics arm, this is a grossly simplified version as it was a lot more complicated than this but this is the gist of it.

 

Ps. Thomson also bought the consumer electronics parts of RCA in the USA around the same time they had bought the Ferguson brand in the UK and so ended up with a significant presence in the USA too.

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Posted : 21/10/2021 7:14 pm
RichardFromMarple
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@red_to_black 

That's interesting.

I think Thomson started on as a American company with branches in the UK & France, but the American company disappeared long ago.  I know the British arm became part of British Thomson Houston, which was absorbed into AEI & then GEC.

At one time part of the French company was nearly taken over by one of the Korean corporations, but the French government vetoed the deal.

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Posted : 21/10/2021 10:00 pm