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1977 Philips N1700: Player No #1 repair  

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crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Whilst I await spares for the Philips N1500  (an update on that is in the video below) I thought I would have a look at the first of the two Philips N1700's I purchased back in the summer of 2018.

The Philips N1700 looks very similar to the Philips N1502 (not to be confused with the N1500) both externally and internally, however very few components are interchangeable between the two models. The slower tape-speed and a slant-azimuth recording technique (to almost eliminate cross-talk between video tracks without using tape-wasting guard-bands) made possible the longer playing time on the N1700 without any noticeable loss in picture quality.

The operation of the N1700 can be found here :  https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/operation-of-the-n1700-n1702/

The two N1700's and the bare-bones in my collection have the mains lead hard-wired into the machine, this dates them to be the early '77 models,  later releases of the N1700 had a removable mains lead.

Personally I much prefer the aesthetics of the N1500, the teak wood case and the silver top panel than that of the N1700 much more my style.

 

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Posted : 30/01/2019 2:42 pm
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crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

N1700 belt check , bringing a new dimension to my over the shoulder threads/posts.

 

Edit: forgot to state on the video which belt was what

n17kbelts

 

p.s.
Re vids; I don't find it easy or comfortable but do hope to get better at it. If you find me or the youtube vids boring or unnecessary please say as I will not be offended and will stop.

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Posted : 30/01/2019 4:16 pm
PYE625
(@pye625)
Famed V-Ratter Registered
Posted by: crustytv

p.s.
Re vids; I don't find it easy or comfortable but do hope to get better at it. If you find me or the youtube vids boring or unnecessary please say as I will not be offended and will stop.

I find them very interesting and informative. An extra dimension is added to the threads.

To understand the black art of electronics is to understand witchcraft.
Andrew.

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Posted : 30/01/2019 7:09 pm
Red_to_Black and Marc liked
TVJON74
(@tvjon74)
Honorable V-Ratter Registered

Hi Chris,

I also find them interesting and useful.

Keep it going.

Jon
BVWS Member

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Posted : 31/01/2019 12:57 am
Red_to_Black and Marc liked
Lloyd
(@lloyd)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

Another positive vote for the videos from me too! It’s good to actually see the things you are working on in action, especially with mechanical bits like this. Maybe one day I might have a go at some videos!

I see the difference of the 2 switches, these ones in the N1700 look similar to those found in 70’s and some 80’s music centres for the radio waveband selector switches. This machine looks promising!

 Regards 

Lloyd 

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Posted : 31/01/2019 11:08 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

I've just got myself a video editing software package. I've processed and had a play with the previous belt check video, learning as I go but here it is. Just added some titling, text annotations and incidental intro/outro music.

I'll be filming the actual belt change later today or over the weekend

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Posted : 01/02/2019 10:27 am
Alex728 and Nuvistor liked
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

Very posh  ? .

 

Frank

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Posted : 01/02/2019 12:42 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Latest update:
22 minute video showing the changing of drive belts, on the Philips N1700. I'm sure you all might find paint drying more entertaining and be far more adept at the change. However after searching I cannot find another such video out there so maybe it will be of use to someone.

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Posted : 02/02/2019 6:27 pm
Nuvistor
(@nuvistor)
Famed V-Ratter Registered

Enjoyed watching, my hands don’t have enough dexterity for that work.

 

Frank

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Posted : 03/02/2019 1:43 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Well some mixed results after the belt change and par for the course for me, steps forward followed by steps backwards.

A test signal in the form of test card F injected into the player, the player power on button was pressed, it powered up and E-E was established. During the power on the head drum assembly rotated into position whilst threading the tape, all good thus far. Powered down, head assembly rotated back and tape de-threaded.

Next tape testing; power button pressed, threading started and the head assembly rotated once again into position. Fast forward tested, it worked. Rewind tested, it worked. Now the moment of truth, I pressed play. The tape started playing and the content was displayed on the TV. It was in and out of sync at first but soon established itself albeit occasionally losing sync. Very pleased! I powered down, the head assembly rolled back and the tape de-laced.

I dug another tape out powered up but this time the head assembly was very sluggish to rotate into position, it did finally get there. Tried to power off but the head assembly did not rotate back. Tried to press the power button again but it does not have any effect. Pulled the plug, still no de-thread or head assembly roll-back. Re-plugged in and the head just resumes spinning as does the spool drive.

I'm now left with being unable to power the machine off which in turn would initiate the de-thread procedure hence the head roll-back. When the cassette tray is ejected the drive stops and the head slowly spins down to a halt. When the cassette tray is pushed back down even without a tape installed, you can see the light sensor actuate and the spool drive start along with the head spin up. It would appear to be locked in thread-up run mode which is only interrupted when the cassette tray is opened and due this state no threading action takes as its thinks its already in that state, so no play.

I now need to figure out what on earth has caused this and why. I'm suspecting perhaps stuck relays, missing or incorrect voltages in the threading circuit but to be honest I'm not sure, it seems a good place to start though. Also because it thinks its running the 30sec stop mode switch off is not taking effect.

 

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Posted : 03/02/2019 7:30 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

A little further investigation reveals some interesting results and perhaps clues to what is causing the odd problem as described above. Here's a video of the initial testing of the VCR after the belt change and subsequent video tests. Followed by the faults as detailed above.

Basic description of the N1700 operation is described here

 

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Posted : 03/02/2019 9:35 pm
sideband
(@sideband)
Famed V-Ratter Moderator

Good progress so far Chris. When you consider the age of these beasts, there must be some sticky dried grease somewhere. There was a name for the stuff Philips used which in most cases was a translucent beige or light brown colour. I just can't remember what it was but I doubt it's still available. I think if it was me I'd just clean all the old stuff off and use a decent car lubrication grease. Either that or a spring is missing somewhere.

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Posted : 03/02/2019 10:59 pm
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Today Repair Update #1

Problem found and fixed.  ? 

 

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Posted : 04/02/2019 11:40 am
crustytv
(@crustytv)
Vrat Founder Admin

Today Repair Update #2

Play test & record test, thoughts about possible servo speed and concerns about heads.

Also worn out Flywheel brushes replaced

flybrush

 

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Posted : 04/02/2019 2:18 pm
Red_to_Black
(@red_to_black)
Noble V-Ratter Registered

Hi Chris,

The black and white lines running the length of the screen, that looks a bit like a barcode, is due to the way the dropout compensator (DOC) on Philips machines work, it constantly recycles the same line of video that is stored in a delay line in the absence of off tape FM, now whether this lack of FM is down to a worn head issue, or due to severe mistracking for whatever reason is unknown at this point in time, it could even be an electronic type fault in the head amp department due to the age of this machine.

Again, a known good recording would be highly desirable at this point  😉

Ps. it could even just be due to knackered tapes, however I doubt all of the tapes you have would be knackered to the same extent.

"This is my multimeter. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My multimeter is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my multimeter is useless. Without my multimeter, I am useless."

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Posted : 04/02/2019 7:53 pm
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